Lotus Elan

Rear Hub Circlips

PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:45 pm

I'm having my rear struts rebuilt. (With pretty aluminium adjustable spring seats!)

What size are the circlips? I'm told that one is fractionally thicker than the other 3.

Is this unusual?

Best place to source bearings? I assume they are (were) of a standard size?

Cheers
Vince
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PostPost by: JonB » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:39 pm

Hi Vince

I got my bearings and new circlips from Sue Miller... No problems so far (that's not saying too much as I haven't done many miles since).

Oh the fun of the rear hub experience..

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PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:55 pm

JonB wrote:Hi Vince
Oh the fun of the rear hub experience..
Cheers JonB


That's why I gave up Jon. No manner of heat, special tools and bashing with special dead drop mallets would budge the hubs. Machine shop has a 20 Ton press. The drive shafts were, apparently, even tougher.

No chance of me shifting them.

The engineer also made up a "blind" sleeve to fit over the shaft thread and, whilst checking the shafts on a lathe, returned the thread that the removal tool has splayed.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet!
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PostPost by: Elanman99 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:09 pm

vincereynard wrote:
JonB wrote:Hi Vince
Oh the fun of the rear hub experience..
Cheers JonB


That's why I gave up Jon. No manner of heat, special tools and bashing with special dead drop mallets would budge the hubs. Machine shop has a 20 Ton press. The drive shafts were, apparently, even tougher.

No chance of me shifting them.

The engineer also made up a "blind" sleeve to fit over the shaft thread and, whilst checking the shafts on a lathe, returned the thread that the removal tool has splayed.

Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet!


Its not clear from your description what you are actually trying to remove or dismantle.

Is it the bearings off the shaft or getting the bearings out of the ali casting that is the problem?

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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:19 pm

Just watched Car SOS on tv where they smashed the casting trying to force the shaft out- they only used a 10 tonne press too! See separate thread. :D

free-parking-f45/friday-jan-channel-t43622.html
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:34 pm

The casing fracture must have been deliberate and for show as the inboard circlip was clearly visible still in situ.

In other threads we discovered that the wheel bearings are standard industrial types.
One is used on many washing machines!
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:03 pm

Elanman99 wrote:Its not clear from your description what you are actually trying to remove or dismantle.
Is it the bearings off the shaft or getting the bearings out of the ali casting that is the problem?
Ian


They are all apart now. The machine shop was asking if I knew the bearing and /or circlip sizes so he could try a bearing factor instead of the usual suspects.

MarkDa wrote:The casing fracture must have been deliberate and for show as the inboard circlip was clearly visible still in situ.
In other threads we discovered that the wheel bearings are standard industrial types.
One is used on many washing machines!

Seems a pointless bit of drama. Still the shaft should still have slid out through the bearings. Like it says in the manual! The paint prep. seemed a bit dubious as well.

I'll have to search the back thread unless a kind person can point it out.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:08 am

The following thread discusses the larger harder to find inner bearing. The outer bearing is 6206 - 2RS which is about the most common bearing in the world is available anywhere

lotus-gearbox-f37/outboard-drive-shaft-bearings-t32763.html

The SKF 415662C I mentioned in the post are listed as in stock by suppliers but they may be equivalents rather thna original SKF bearings so check before you buy

measuring up my spare strut and shafts and circlips i get the following

The large circlips that go in the alloy housing to locate the bearing outer races are 1.96 mm thick for fitting a nominal 2 mm wide groove. The circlip groove OD is 65 mm for a nominal 2.5 mm groove depth in a 62 mm bore for the bearing. They are both the same thickness but a metal shield goes between the inner face of the inner bearing and the circlip.

The smaller circlip that fits the shaft at the inner bearing is 1.48 mm thick for a nominal 1.5 mm groove width and the groove ID is 28.25 mm in a 30 mm shaft

You want to check your shaft and alloy housing to make sure they are the same, as items do get modified over the years and some replacement shafts or housings may be machined slightly differently.

cheers
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:26 pm

Many thanks as always Rohan. I shall pass the info. on.

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PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:06 pm

My rear suspension upright/hubs were basically scrap, one had been cracked and welded, the other had chunks of alumium missing in the area of the circlip grooves. I replaced them and bought stainless circlips from my local bearing factor, in the hope that they are less likely to corrode in the grooves.

On the subject of bearings always use a good known brand such as SKF as the hassle of doing the job twice is dwarfed by the saving of a cheaper bearing.

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PostPost by: Elanman99 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:52 pm

TBH Richard, SS circlips are more likely to damage the aluminium than plain steel ones. SS and aluminium are at opposite ends of the galvanic corrosion scale so if the two are in contact with any water involved the aluminium degrades to powdery dust.

Steel ones might rust but they can be painted after installing or what happens mostly is the circlip blacking or plated finish gives sufficient protection until the bearings are next replaced. Coating the SS ones in grease might delay damage but electrically the two metals will still be in contact so galvanic action is just waiting to happen.

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PostPost by: MarkDa » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:13 pm

Great tip - add in the possibility of salt with the water in real world motoring and that's a mix you want to avoid.
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PostPost by: jono » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:15 am

It's the fitting procedure that's critical to ensure you don't build side load into the new bearings otherwise rapid failure will occur
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PostPost by: gus » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:11 pm

Elanman99 wrote:TBH Richard, SS circlips are more likely to damage the aluminium than plain steel ones. SS and aluminium are at opposite ends of the galvanic corrosion scale so if the two are in contact with any water involved the aluminium degrades to powdery dust.

Steel ones might rust but they can be painted after installing or what happens mostly is the circlip blacking or plated finish gives sufficient protection until the bearings are next replaced. Coating the SS ones in grease might delay damage but electrically the two metals will still be in contact so galvanic action is just waiting to happen.

Ian


I see this statement all the time, and I'm sorry, but if there is enough corrosion potential to cause this, the plain steel would have disappeared long before. In a salt water boat for instance.

If it were a thin piece of aluminum in a stainless housing it might happen, but never in this case

The reason not to use stainless is that it is softer and not intended for this high load area.

galvanic corrosion in salt water boats is a real issue

not so much in cars.
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PostPost by: Elanman99 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:38 pm

gus wrote:
Elanman99 wrote:TBH Richard, SS circlips are more likely to damage the aluminium than plain steel ones. SS and aluminium are at opposite ends of the galvanic corrosion scale so if the two are in contact with any water involved the aluminium degrades to powdery dust.

Steel ones might rust but they can be painted after installing or what happens mostly is the circlip blacking or plated finish gives sufficient protection until the bearings are next replaced. Coating the SS ones in grease might delay damage but electrically the two metals will still be in contact so galvanic action is just waiting to happen.

Ian


I see this statement all the time, and I'm sorry, but if there is enough corrosion potential to cause this, the plain steel would have disappeared long before. In a salt water boat for instance.

If it were a thin piece of aluminum in a stainless housing it might happen, but never in this case

The reason not to use stainless is that it is softer and not intended for this high load area.

galvanic corrosion in salt water boats is a real issue

not so much in cars.


No need to be sorry, however 'see the statement all the time' is not the same as seeing corroded aluminium in contact with stainless fasteners. That is something I do see all the time!

Mostly the problems I see are on underwater filming equipment used in lakes and oceans. The equipment manufacturers incorporate sacrificial anodes etc but not every piece of kit is kept in good condition and on smaller items there is often not enough room. On my car which has long been non original, I replaced many fixings with stainless and it did not take long for me to see problems.

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