Lotus Elan

Elan S3 brake upgrade

PostPost by: Dieschelan » Tue May 08, 2018 9:49 pm

Hi

I want to upgrade the brake system of my Elan S3. I think the first is to put a brake servo and also the plus 2 brakes. Someone know if I feet the front brake disc of the plus 2, can I use the original bolt on wheels? Should i put a larger clutch pump?

Regards

Diego
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PostPost by: ericbushby » Tue May 08, 2018 10:30 pm

Hi Diego,
Go ahead with your upgrade if you wish, but I have no problem with my S3SE with servo unit fitted.
I have locked all four wheels easily when frightened, and see no reason for any more brake power than that..
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PostPost by: Elan45 » Wed May 09, 2018 3:30 am

Hi Diego,

Are you sure your standard brakes are operating as they should. If your rear calipers are rusted and frozen, your brakes will appear week. Standard S3 brakes in good condition are quite capable. Spend the money on stainless steel pistons.

Roger..
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PostPost by: Maulden7 » Wed May 09, 2018 8:42 am

I fitted +2 brakes to my S2 some years ago, without adding a servo or changing anything else.

This works really well on road & track.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed May 09, 2018 12:04 pm

The Elan at 700kg is well braked even by modern standards with the standard un-boosted system, disks and calipers and modern high friction coefficient pads and good quality brake fluid even in race situations.

You dont really need to go down the "big brake" approach in most real world usages including extreme race braking situations

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PostPost by: Dieschelan » Wed May 09, 2018 3:47 pm

If you upgrade the engine to 140-150 hp is not necessary to upgrade the brakes?

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PostPost by: Stevie-Heathie » Wed May 09, 2018 3:49 pm

I upgraded the brakes on my S3 SE by removing the servo. No other changes. Added lightness, removed complexity, added feel.

Best
Steve
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PostPost by: tvacc » Wed May 09, 2018 5:05 pm

PNM Engineering have a new brake upgrade for the Elan. I am going to purchase it in a few weeks. They really have not marketed it yet. www.pnmengineering.com/

Send them an email. Tell them Tony from www.lotusowners.com sent you.

Looks like a really great kit. 4 pot...fits regular wheels. Should stop an Elan really quickly.

Tony V
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu May 10, 2018 10:20 am

Dieschelan wrote:If you upgrade the engine to 140-150 hp is not necessary to upgrade the brakes?

Regards

No need - My 180hp Elan is fine with the standard brakes and no booster even on tracks with multiple heavy braking points down from high speed in a two minute lap. These braking loads are 10 times higher than anything you will experience in real life on the roads.

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PostPost by: ecamiel » Thu May 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Even with the stock brake I never experienced fade on the street.
I upgraded to +2 / GT 6 front brakes, no booster, and spindles mostly to get the larger, stronger spindles to work with super sticky race slicks. I have had some brake fade on one track I go to but not anywhere else and never on the street.

Dave Bean (RIP) told me that frequent fluid changes to eliminate absorbed moisture in the system, was the key to good hi temperature brake performance. That would be the first thing to do if you are having fade issues.

BTW, BMW engineers said the highest brake temperatures they encountered was on long downhill runs even at moderate speeds.

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu May 10, 2018 1:25 pm

If you want to get the best out of your standard Elan brakes then use DOT 5.1 fluid and change it yearly. The use a modern pad compound suited to your use helps as there is a huge selection and i have tried most. Finally a few tricks to maximise performance of standard setup can be done like, balance valve or selected pad coefficient front to rear , castellated pistons and insulated pad backing.

Yes long downhills certainly load brakes heavily. The Elan being light weight does not suffer as much in this situation as many other "fatter" cars like BMW and Porkers.

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PostPost by: vstibbard » Fri May 11, 2018 9:04 am

I agree with the advice to stick with the standard Elan brakes with our without booster, brake callipers serviced, master cylinder and quality pads, regular fluid changes and with booster similar braking to a modern car, without just more pressure required but awesome feel. If competing then bias is required using single master, otherwise a dual master with balance bar.

I noticed Rohan's comment about heavier cars, I've rallied and track day a 73 911S built to 2.8 RSR spec, I rallied competitively and won two prologs and now defunct due to major accident East Coast that ran in NSW rally outright, run its a Bathurst in and event which is a fast and hard on brakes circuit. The 911 weighs just over 1000kgs with cage etc, its running the race spec fluid, original spec aluminium front and std rear callipers and disks with pagid pads, the cars runs out to 8000rpm in every gear very quickly which equates to 150MPH in 5th. I've never experienced fade but regularly replace fluid, cooling ducts are fitted.

My experience is a well specified EOM and maintained disk all round set up with correctly chosen pads is more than capable of being used by the majority of punters.


V
Last edited by vstibbard on Fri May 11, 2018 9:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: Evante » Fri May 11, 2018 12:15 pm

Rohan,

Where do you get "castellated pistons and insulated pad backing" for the Elan?

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PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat May 12, 2018 8:54 am

For the castellated Pistons i would think you just put 3 Blades in your Hacksaw at the same time and start cutting :shock:
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat May 12, 2018 11:53 pm

For castellated pistons a dremel or angle grinder with suitable disks will do what is needed. Be careful how deep you go to avoid cutting into the area covered by the seal when the piston is fully retracted.

Some of the Ferrodo pads i have used in the past had a bonded on backing, mainly for anti squeal properties I think but also effectvie heat insulation between the pad backing plate and the piston. Castellated pistons achieve the same effect of reducing heat transfer to the pistons and the Hawk pads i use these days dont have this style of backing.

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