Lotus Elan

Changing Top Steering Joint

PostPost by: david.g.chapman » Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:34 am

I will need to change at least one of these joints on my +2 over the winter. It's the one that connects the top wishbone to the upright.

Looking at the suspension, it seems that with the car jacked up and the suspension drooping, there is no force from the front springs on this joint, so I do not have to compress the front springs. I just have to catch the hub as the joint is removed as it rotates outwards.

Is that right?

Dave Chapman.
david.g.chapman
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 709
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Writtle, Essex

PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:20 pm

right - you can pull this joint out from the top wishbones and leave everything else in place. The biggest challenge is separating the taper out of the top of the vertical link

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7512
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: JimE » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:29 pm

rgh0 wrote:right - you can pull this joint out from the top wishbones and leave everything else in place. The biggest challenge is separating the taper out of the top of the vertical link

cheers
Rohan


Ideally you want one of these to do it.
Attachments
img_0178.jpg and
JimE
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 377
Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Location: London

PostPost by: david.g.chapman » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:48 pm

Thanks Rohan and Jim.

I discovered one of my joints had a split gaiter but was otherwise OK. I sewed up the split and sealed with RTV, but the gaiter is perishing so the joint will have to be replaced before too long.

Dave.
david.g.chapman
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 709
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Writtle, Essex

PostPost by: JimE » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:55 pm

Yes once they split it's time to change them.
JimE
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 377
Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Location: London

PostPost by: david.g.chapman » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:44 pm

2 new ball joints ordered from SJ Sportscars. ?31 inc VAT and postage - not bad.

Dave.
david.g.chapman
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 709
Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Location: Writtle, Essex

PostPost by: billwill » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:12 am

This kind of ball joint remover is better as it does not involve hammering at the suspension.

Image
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4721
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: Chancer » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:27 am

The first type is guaranteed to split the gaiter, I still have mine and its the best for getting joints apart if you are going to replace the joint or have a spare gaiter, on the old Minis it was good for the top and bottom swivel joints because the gaiter was just a cap and would slide out of the way.

Some impressive rust on the one in the photo, mine has always been covered in grease and grime and the plating is still like new.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: Craven » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:36 am

I thought you guys would have advocated the two large hammer method.
Bill that type needs to be really good quality, have cracked more than one of those.
Craven
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1091
Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Location: south coast uk

PostPost by: JimE » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:28 am

Chancer wrote:The first type is guaranteed to split the gaiter, I still have mine and its the best for getting joints apart if you are going to replace the joint or have a spare gaiter, on the old Minis it was good for the top and bottom swivel joints because the gaiter was just a cap and would slide out of the way.

Some impressive rust on the one in the photo, mine has always been covered in grease and grime and the plating is still like new.

Yes, clearly I haven't used it for 30 odd years and it was hidden away in an old tool box. Back then I use to do all my own suspension work. The swivel joints in those days had a transparent gaiter and were beefier and probably longer lasting than the ones today. Jim
JimE
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 377
Joined: 22 Jan 2017
Location: London

PostPost by: Chancer » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:36 pm

The problem is for that to work it needs metal to metal contact, one side of the wedge against the steering arm the other against the outside of the joint but it has to cut through the gaiter to do that and one whack of the hammer will slice straight through it.

I rarely have to resort to using either of my types of seperator, some things you dont lose even after 20+ years and how to hammer a ball joint apart is one of them for me, where to hit it, how to hit it, what direction (that with most resistance) and whether a 2nd hammer as a reaction mass is needed, I am dissapointed if I need more than one hit, inconsolable if my aim is off and I damage the gaiter.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

PostPost by: Mazzini » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:13 am

Craven wrote:I thought you guys would have advocated the two large hammer method.
Bill that type needs to be really good quality, have cracked more than one of those.


Plus 1 to that, it works everyt ime.
User avatar
Mazzini
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1896
Joined: 11 Dec 2010
Location: NE UK

PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:52 am

+1 for two hammers 8) but mind the wing when you swing :lol:
Boots can be bought from sjsportscars
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: reb53 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:36 am

I never managed to get the "belt it each side with 2 hammers" system to work.

Figuring as the joint was going to be discarded anyway, I took a hacksaw to it, and chopped the top off leaving the taper in the upright.
Then got a big "G" clamp, and a socket, and pressed the taper out.

Ralph.
reb53
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 772
Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Location: Napier New Zealand.

PostPost by: Chancer » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:02 am

The problem with the two hammer approach is that you have to do it from the side of the joint and the wheelarch severely limits the swing and hence momentum, its fine on a rolling chassis.

That is why I use one hammer at 90? to the axis of the inner wishbone pivot, you have the maximum distance from the bodywork and the suspension is at its stiffest in that direction compared to fore and aft.

The 2 hammer method definitely works but to be really effective the stationary one needs to be a much larger mass, there usually just isn't room and access on a vehicle suspension.

Like most things its something I intuitively learned and later on saw Professional mechanics doing it the same way, I've never seen one use 2 hammers to release a mounted suspension ball joint, when you do something day in day out, and when I was Young I was working on cars full time, you adopt the simplest most effective methods and adapt for situations where they dont work.

If I had an upright complete with upper and lower wishbones removed from a vehicle by a breakers yard for instance I would use 2 hammers or one hammer and just a sledgehammer head or another suitable mass.
Chancer
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1391
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Location: Northern France/ Sussex UK

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests