Lotus Elan

hex / knock off nuts: steel vs alluminium

PostPost by: el-saturn » Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:28 pm

howdy folks (i'm not really a country freak) and i figure many of you have put some thought to the difference between these nuts. do to the fact that there's a steel "washer" (in function, although a funnel) between the rim and the nut; what is the actual difference between my elan+2 (4,5") and alloy nuts? do to the extreme productional tolerances (1mm max surface contact x circumferance) it's hard to believe it matters if the regular knock on is adequately tightened?! 36 4982 SE + OR NOT - does anybody have accurate drawings incl. cross sections of the actually produced parts!!!!?????? - i think we'd just have to smile sandy (once tight: TIGHT)
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PostPost by: elj221c » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:16 pm

el-saturn wrote: does anybody have accurate drawings incl. cross sections of the actually produced parts!!!!??????


If only!

It won't help you too much but you could start here!

lotus-suspension-f42/alloy-wheel-collar-needed-t25785.html

Have fun......
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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:53 pm

To clarify a couple of things you say: the +2 wheels are 5.5 but it is the little Elan that are 4.5. Also I've had two sets of Nader nuts for my Lotus wheels and one said "steel wheel only" that came with the steel wheel,
and the other set is unmarked that I use on my alloy wheels and both sets are steel nuts not aluminum. I don't know of any aluminum nuts being used for the Lotus alloy wheels. Also I'm not so sure that any shims were used with Lotus alloy wheels. I understand that the Minilites and Panasports that were adapted to be used on the +2 had to have spacers but the Lotus-brand alloy wheels as far as I know never did. There may be some copycat lotus alloy wheels that need a spacer but I really can't say if that's the case. I have Lotus-brand alloy wheels and they fit the same way with the nuts on them that the steel wheels did with good firm fit, no nut loosening and clearly no need for any shims. Gordon Sauer
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:36 am

Gordon Sauer wrote:Also I'm not so sure that any shims were used with Lotus alloy wheels.


Gordon,
If you are thinking about the shaped washer or thrust ring that fits between the knock on nut and the alloy wheel, these are used with the Lotus alloy wheels. There are a number of threads on on site about the thrust rings with several images of them fitted to the Lotus wheels.
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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Sun Oct 25, 2015 4:55 am

I bought my lotus alloy wheels new in the '80s and they didn't come with any rings. I think there has even been a suggestion that they might be interference fitted into the hole and, not the case on mine. My octagonal nuts turn down about six turns to full tight which seems from the "+2 alloy wheels" five page post to be just right (9 was sugested as bottoming). There have been many pictures that show rings and that show wheels (going back even to that five pager) but I've missed any one where collars are actually used on the Lotus brand alloy wheels (I think it was mattelan I was hoping would do that). Gordon Sauer
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:13 am

I have Panasport wheels and they have a thrust ring/spacer that is permanently pressed into the wheel and is beveled to match the spinner's shape. I was told that the thrust ring protects the softer alloy wheels from the steel Elan spinners when being tighten. It would help from the spinner bottoming out.
Pictured is a Panasport wheel and the two different thrust rings that can fall out. The black one is thicker.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:30 am

My original Lotus Alloy wheels on my 73 Plus 2 have steel inserts that are an interference fit in the wheel.

cheers
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PostPost by: frogeyesimon » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:15 am

My plus 2 has 3 lotus alloy wheels with collars and one without. The one without appears to be identical to the 3 with, with the exception that the centre bore is only 59.3mm. That would mean a very LARGE interference fit.
Spinners tighten down just fine on all wheels.

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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:13 pm

My 73 +2 Alloys also have the steel inserts.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Tue Oct 27, 2015 6:27 pm

really elanesque answers!!! it's obvious lots of u fellas got a set where the rings / thrustwashers were lost/missing: they are (NO DOUBT IN MY MIND!!) part of the design/construction. mine are 4,5 BRAND alloys (they are original and came WITH???????????) these BRAND (that was the manufacturer) wheels weigh more than a kg LESS than a steel 4,5 (both knock offs). i just had the rings/washers chromed:

THEY LOOK DYNAMITE and mine will get a set of new shoes this coming spring (A048's) - sandy 4982
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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:40 pm

So I dug out my steel wheel and mounted it on the hub and found it takes 8 1/2 turns to make tight versus the 6 1/2 I said for the lotus alloy. Additionally the two contact patterns are shown with the contact pattern being broader on the spinner to the steel wheel than the spinner to the lotus alloy wheel. Additionally the lotus alloy wheel has, when mounted, a space of 3/32 between the threaded hub and the inside hole of the wheel versus 1/16th of an inch, in terms of putting a drillbit in there, between the steel wheel hole and the threaded hub. So it certainly seems a spacer would fit as you have all acknowledged which I thought it wouldn't and apparently it wouldn't interfere with sufficient threading. It still would be nice to see a pucture because I wonder if it sits so proud of the wheel like on the minilites which to me is unbecoming. Thanks for the consensus moving it along elsaturn Gordon Sauer
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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Oct 27, 2015 9:51 pm

Here's one of my wheels. Inserts have been painted black.
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PostPost by: Gordon Sauer » Tue Oct 27, 2015 11:37 pm

Good to see and thanks for posting the picture. It does make me think with the 3/32 clearance that it is super critical that the spinner is absolutely tight since you're loading the pegs with the wheel location otherwise--if there isn't a spacer to take up that 3/32.Thanks Gordon Sauer
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