Lotus Elan

To Tube or not to Tube?

PostPost by: Oldthumper » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:53 am

Brand new Firestone tubeless tyres, wheels fully restored and checked, do I put the tubes back in or go tubeless? Tubes too are supposed to have been brand new, but we were horrified to discover that there were repairs!
If anyone has any actual personal experiences of problems either way, I would be very grateful to hear

Ray S4 fhc
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:02 am

The issue is how airtight are you wheels - the centres where riveted to the rims and the rivets can leak but they may hold air OK . Otherwise your wheels should have the safety humps to hold the beads in place in event of a partial deflation which is a safety requirement for tubeless tyres - though I have never been convinced of its need in a light car like an Elan.

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PostPost by: Oldthumper » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:50 am

Thanks Rohan,an intelligent reasoned answer. Much appreciated.
We are getting a local "wheel" expert to check them out and see what he thinks as well.
Thanks again
Ray
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Wed Jul 29, 2015 12:58 pm

I have read somewhere that fitting tubes in a tubeless tyre can alter the shape of the tyre.

Presumable, if a nail penetrated tyre and tube, the tube would deflate, the valve pull out and the tyre deflate quicker than just a punctured tubeless on its own? On the other hand if you hit something nasty on the road and damaged the wheel rim, a tube may stay up long enough to prevent unpleasantness.

You could consider http://www.amazon.co.uk/Slime-Tyre-Punc ... B005S0UC82

Which should seal any leaks in the wheel itself.

I believe, however, that it does make repairing a tyre almost impossible.
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:14 pm

P L U S, restoration of a set of rims call for 10hrs of mostly manual labour: at the same time they get lots of milligramms of paint which seals perfectly - the light weight of the car and the rel. height (70 - 80 vs 40 - 65) of most of your tyres (145/70/13 e.f.) prevents high enough loads which may become critical ---- the racing rims i remember actually had bolts going thru them 5/8" or M8 --- 3pc BBS rims 10x30x15 ef ?! for sportscars, gr 4 + 5, gr. C....
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PostPost by: KevJ+2 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:11 pm

Ray, I think you have answered your own question by fitting tubeless tyres. I did the same and intended to fit tubes. After much discussion on here, I decided not to fit them. The ridges inside modern tubeless tyres apparently wear the tubes creating little balls of rubber and subsequent punctures. The wheels are supposed to have the safety ridge for tubeless tyres but as someone told me - a punctures a puncture, so it's going to go down regardless.
Tricky one.
Kev.

Ps I also put a small amount of tiger seal over each rivet before painting.
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:17 pm

KevJ+2 wrote:Ray, I think you have answered your own question by fitting tubeless tyres. I did the same and intended to fit tubes. After much discussion on here, I decided not to fit them. The ridges inside modern tubeless tyres apparently wear the tubes creating little balls of rubber and subsequent punctures. The wheels are supposed to have the safety ridge for tubeless tyres but as someone told me - a punctures a puncture, so it's going to go down regardless.
Tricky one.
Kev.

Ps I also put a small amount of tiger seal over each rivet before painting.



I agree, If you enjoy punctures fit tubes :)
John

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PostPost by: Oldthumper » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:46 pm

Thanks guys for all your comments.
In the end we decided to go tubeless,have to just hope Miles doesn't find out!(or I'll be in for more swearing if I ever go back there again)
Ray S4 fhc
Starting to reassemble next week....can't wait!!
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PostPost by: Hawksfield » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:20 pm

Hi all

I have had tubes fitted to my +2s130 since I bought it in 1986 in that time I have changed to new tyres three times. I have endured one puncture in all that time and it was caused by rust in the valley of the steel wheel, since that time I have always cleaned the valley and wrapped it with tape.
I am not advocating tube or no tube but there was a reason for lotus to fit tubes.
I was advised by tyre fitters that my wheels had no safety bead and required tubes to be fitted

The choice is yours
Regards

John

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PostPost by: KevJ+2 » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:29 pm

JH,
I agree that the choice is everyone's but when Lotus fitted tubes, they were fitted to correct tubed tyres.
The 'tubeless' tyre is exactly that and imho is not suitable for tubes. As I said before, it's a tricky one - No safety ridge but wrong tyres with tubes - like you say, the choice is yours.
Kev.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:48 pm

i think Lotus fitted Tubes to Tubeless
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:02 pm

alan.barker wrote:i think Lotus fitted Tubes to Tubeless


Only with steel wheels or also with alloys?
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PostPost by: Oldthumper » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:45 pm

Just a thought,but does anyone know what the MOT regs say on the subject?
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PostPost by: jimj » Sat Aug 01, 2015 9:31 am

I`ve run with tubes in for just over 62,000 miles now, though not the same ones. I`ve had 3 punctures in that time, 2 on the same day, within an hour. Having only one spare wheel it was lucky that I was within half a mile of a tyre depot. It`s surprising how heavy a spare wheel becomes after a quarter of a mile.
Jim
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PostPost by: KevJ+2 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:44 am

Oldthumper wrote:Just a thought,but does anyone know what the MOT regs say on the subject?


I don't know about the mot requirements but I would assume that tread and general condition of the tyre is all that's noted. Wheel condition as well would be inspected.
My main concern is the question of insurance. In an accident caused by a blow out, would having tubes in a tubeless tyre be questioned? Equally, would a tubeless tyre (without tubes) fitted to a non safety ridged wheel also be questioned? Does anyone know?
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