Lotus Elan

Tracking results ..... Can anyone tell me what it means

PostPost by: terryp » Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:47 pm

Well I thought I'd better have the tracking checked so booked it into a local garage. Now obviously although my wife's French is very good the mechanic didn't quite understand "toe in" even though I took him a photo copy of the workshop manual. Anyway it went on the ramp and was measured as a modern car.
On arrival :-
Front left - 0 degree 14 mins
Front right - 0 degree 8 mins
He adjusted to (based on 1989 Elan !,,,,,)
Front left - 0 degree 5 mins
Front right - 0 degree 5 mins

Now when I took the car I had previously set it to max toe in although I didn't know the figure. So it looks as if I still have some toe in but not as much
Anyone hazard a guess as to what I have and is it right????

Am I right in saying that if you base in on the wheel diameter 13 inches based on trigonometry 1 degree = 0,22 inches or 5.76mm
Therefore - 0 degree 5mins X 2 = 10 mins so 10/60 x 5.76mm = approx 1mm
Previously being approx 2mm??

Anyone agree?
Thanks

Terry
Ps perhaps I need some French lessons
Last edited by terryp on Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:19 pm

Have a read over this thread.....it may help.
lotus-elan-f19/toe-degrees-t22969.html
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PostPost by: terryp » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:30 pm

Thanks Brian, after reading I have realised that my seconds are minutes ( now edited) but I think I am right overall. So I would be better to return to the position I had previous which is almost 2mm toe in at the wheel edges

I think it must be a French thing

Thanks again
Terry
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PostPost by: Chancer » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:51 pm

A French thing being not listening to what the Customer asks for and juts going ahead anyway :lol:

Probably compounded by your wife whilst speaking good French not knowing the mechanical terms in both languages or understanding what they are, "toe in" translated literally would be confusing, in French is angle de ripage and not to be confused with angle de braquage.

My concern with him using the figures for a 1989 Elan is that would presumably be the FWD model which may well be set parallel to 5 minutes of toe out whereas your correct settings (I dont have them to hand) would be parallel to toe-in.

Go back and talk to the guy, make some gestures with the flats of your hands together.
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PostPost by: terryp » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm

I did so many hand gestures showing toe in I thought I was going to be accosted by a Jehovah witness!
I see what you mean about the toe out but I think as I set for max toe in, he could only go one way so if he came to less of an angle he must be toeing in rather than further out ....... I think
Perhaps I'll buy a cheap gauge from eBay

Terry
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:12 pm

Some string and a tape measure is all you need !!!

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PostPost by: terryp » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:43 am

Thanks Rohan!
I think its about right as it drives OK.
I think the thing is its all a bit approximate anyway as the ride height will alter the minute you get in and alter all the settings. I think it just must not toe out at all or toe in too much.

I am a bit lost as to the fact that he adjusted the car between the two sides a total of 12 minutes which equates I think to 1.15mm so 0.57mm per side.
I suspect he just leant on the car a bit :lol:

Terry
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:10 am

With the rack set at the right height the toe- in should not change a huge amount amount over the normal wheel travel. Yes its important that front and rear toe-in is with in the Lotus specifications. I prefer the front up near the top end of the Lotus specs as it gives my car more stability under heavy braking on the track.

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PostPost by: terryp » Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:15 am

Rohan
When you say at the top end is that 1.6mm or 4 or 5mm?

My equates using that excel file at 1.9mm?

Thanks
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:00 am

I set it in the 4 to 5 mm range.

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PostPost by: terryp » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:19 am

OK that means that when I took the car in , it was nearer what you use :(
4.23mm by the calculator

I will post the link gain to the calculator as people may miss it
http://www.fiatforum.com/miscellaneous- ... lator.html
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PostPost by: JJDraper » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:33 am

Interesting discussion. I have no idea what my toe in is set at, but I know when it is wrong! Not enough toe in and the car is very twitchy at speed - difficult to hold a straight line - and it is difficult to relax grip at the wheel above 60mph. During the shakedown after my full rebuild, I was unhappy with this trait and took it to the specialist who said "not enough toe in". He dialled in a bit more, and presto, it became more stable. Not quite enough for my taste, so he put a bit more on and the difference was closer to my preference. Now stable at 70+ and less stressful.

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PostPost by: ericbushby » Thu Jul 03, 2014 10:14 am

Rohan.
Having recently replaced the steering rack, I need to check and set the toe in on my S3 and I am hoping to use the string method..
When you say 4 to 5 mm, is that the total difference between the two wheels, i.e. 2 to 2.5mm each side?
Where is this measured. Is it at the rim edge?
As always these things are easy when you have done them before. Trouble is everything seems to be new to me.
Thanks.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jul 03, 2014 11:18 am

Most people assume they know what the toe-in specifications in the manual mean (or assume their wheel alignment place knows ... and many are wrong) so you always want to check :D As Lotus did not specify the conventions they used for measuring this value I actually contacted the current Lotus Workshop Manual writer a few years ago to try to understand how it would have been specified back in the 60's.

In summary this is his response below:

"The front toe-in quoted of 1.6mm to 4.76mm is total difference in track between the front and rear of both wheels measured at the rim diameter. This was the normal way of specifying front toe in at that time. It was typically quoted this way as the wheels were connected and could not be separately adjusted and this is how Lotus would have done it back in the 60's"

" The basis for the rear toe-in number quoted is a little uncertain. It is not clear if it is total toe-in as per the front suspension or if it is individual toe-in per side. Later cars with adjustable rear suspension toe-in such as the Esprit quoted toe-in per side explicitly in the manual at the rear as they are individually adjustable but it is not clear whether the non adjustable Elan rear was total or per side toe-in".

My Rear toe-in on both the Plus 2 and Elan is around 4mm total or 2mm per side. The quoted spec in the manual is zero to 4.76mm so I am within the specification whether its per side or total. My belief is that the rear toe-in number in the Elan manual is total like the front but that is just my personal opinion.

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PostPost by: ericbushby » Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:37 pm

Thankyou Rohan.
I understand now.
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