Lotus Elan

26R wheels and hubs...advice

PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:59 pm

I am adding my post to this string from 2 years ago because it is relevant and I perhaps have some additional new information to provide.

There was some discussion on a related string about the hub threads not being fully engaged when using the 26r (5-pin version, standard hub) replica alloy wheels. I just received the following information from Kelsport (apparently the only vendor that supplies the 5-pin, standard hub version):

"The standard steel wheel takes 8 threads, the Dunlop wheel takes 7 threads, and our (Kelsport) wheel (happens to be orange) will take 6 ? to 7 threads. Please see pictures attached. The standard spinner has 9 threads."

kelsport-wheel.jpg and
Kelsport 5 pin 26R wheel


kelsport-wheel-2.jpg and
Kelsport 5 Pin 26R wheel


dunlop-wheel.jpg and
Dunlop Wheel


standard-steel-wheel.jpg and
Standard Steel Wheel



So I have the continuing questions that others may be able to clarify:

1. While there is a reduced engaged thread count on the 26R alloy version, is it significant? Looks only like 1+ thread difference.

2. On a proper 4 peg 26R knock-off hub what is the thread engagement? Any different to these 5 pin versions on standard hubs?

3. When researching putting 26R type wheels on my S4, all of the usual vendors (except one: Kelsport) only offered the 4-peg 26R hub conversion and associated 4 peg wheels. In fact, one vendor (well known and respected) also indicated that the 5-pin version does not provide "secure fitment" and that he ends up reselling "a lot" of the proper 4-pin setup to the "poor owner" that initially chose the 5 pin option.

I am trying to "normalize" this last input that the 5-pin option will "fail". Normally to be conservative it sounds like the 4-peg option is the "safest" decision. But the 5-pin option has a number of advantages:

a. Cost. Don't have to buy new 4 pin hubs and pegs. Not insignificant.
b. Ease. Don't have the labor of swapping all the hubs out.
c. Convenience. Can still use a standard wheel as an emergency spare. (My car is for the road). Not sure what to do for a spare if using the 4 peg k/o hubs. I suppose I could buy a 5th alloy wheel (expensive) and not sure it will fit in the the trunk (boot) location - already tight for the steel wheel.

BTW, I am not intending to change the arches on my standard S4 so probably going to go for a 5" alloy. I have calculated various clearances for the different wheel backspace from the steel wheels. The 5 and 5.5" wheels actually provide more clearance for the rear wishbone and spring, so that is not a problem. The 6" wheel would be a problem. The primary issue is that the alloy wheels move the tire further out. Thus, depending on tire used, potentially fouling the wheel arch. As 175/70 R13 tires "almost" work on my car already hope that I could reduce to a 165 width tire if need be with a 5" alloy and still be OK. The reason I say "almost" is that with the current setup (4.5 stock wheels) I sometimes had the fronts foul the arch on full lock and dive. Rears are OK - no clearance probs. I am thinking that my new springs and shocks in the front should alleviate the fouling problem - will only know for sure when I get back on the road.

One last consideration on the 4-peg vs 5-peg option:

My understanding is that the pegs in either case are only used as locating pins. That the designation as a "drive" peg is a misnomer. The securing of the wheel to the hub should only rely on the hub/wheel and spinner/hub
frictional/interference interfaces torqued to specification (~200 ft-lb).

Thus, It doesn't seem like the 5-pin should necessarily be inferior to the 4-peg design.

Interestingly, one vendor noted that some of the Panasports only used 3 locating pegs.
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PostPost by: elancoupe » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:36 pm

As one of the "poor" users of the Kelvedon 5 pin wheels, I would be interested to know what exactly "fitment issues" might be, so that I might plan for the impending doom. :?:

I know you are just the messenger, but it certainly would be nice to receive a more detailed explanation from the vendor. If there is a problem, the Elan community should certainly be informed.

Perhaps unsuited for track (ab)use?
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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:05 pm

He was non specific. Only that he had tried the 5 peg approach and said that "5 did not go into 4" very well.

I will say I had a similar discussion about CV joints vs u-joint replacement of Rotoflexes. I was told that the CV conversions didn't hold up and all were poorly made in China. After much argument, in the end I went with the CV joints (German origin) from another vendor.

So, I don't take everything on face value.

Glad to hear that you have the 5 peg 26r option. I take it no problems. I really want to take that route for the reasons previously stated.

What series car do you have? Standard arches? What width wheel? Tire size?
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PostPost by: Greg Foster » Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:47 am

I too have been looking into the Kelsport 26r 4pin vs 5pin wheels and spinners...My question is related to moving the wheel out with a spacer. It sounds like the 4 pin hub would allow more room to install a hub to wheel spacer while keeping a higher thread contact on the 26r spinner. The spacer would take the wheel out just enough (no more than 1/4") to mininize contact with the outer wishbone bolts. I have wide wheel arches so interference there is not a problem.
In the same vane, if using a spacer was possible, would longer drive pins be required?
The other option might be to use the +2 hubs and eliminate the spacer.....Would this be sufficient? Has anyone tried this?
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:14 am

My experience with Gordon's car which he fitted Kelsport 26R wheels using the standard drive pin arrangement was the wheel thickness meant ~ 1/2 the number of threads were used by the Std knock on spinner.

I'd stick with TTR or wheel designed to work with the original knock on arrangement like the Minilight or Panasport

Cheers

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PostPost by: 1owner69Elan » Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:25 pm

After much research and weighing pros/cons, I finally pulled the trigger on the TTR 4-peg Classic 26r approach. Will necessitate changing hubs.

With a high output twink I figured the 4-peg approach probably made more sense.

TTR wheels have a 14 week lead time. Kelsport reports "that there has been a problem at the supplier with the castings" and there is now a 4 month delay.

Ordering 5" aluminum wheels in hope that they will fit the S4 arches without major surgery.

Pretty sure the castings are all made at the same supplier: UK Racing Castings.
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