Lotus Elan

Are Elan hubs the same as +2 hubs?

PostPost by: tynemead » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:37 pm

Are Elan knock on hubs the same as +2 Elan knock on hubs? As I have been offered a set of +2 Hubs for my Elan S3 If not what is the difference

Thanks Jonathan :D
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:41 pm

Don't know the dimensions off the top of my head but the Plus2 hubs are wider..

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PostPost by: tynemead » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:43 pm

Thanks for the reply, Does anyone have a set of Knock on in the UK I have a set of bolt on available with refurbished wheels, new nuts and new Lotus hub caps if any one wants a swap. :D
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PostPost by: pauljones » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:16 pm

Hi,

I asked a similar question a while ago, as i understand it the hubs from an Elan are not the same as a plus 2 and are not a direct swap. If i am wrong and they are an easy swap then i would love a set of bolt on wheels and matching hubs to go on my plus 2,as a trade i have a set of knock on wheels and hubs from said plus 2.If it helps.

Sorry its not much concrete help,but its what i got as a reply to my question.

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PostPost by: paddy » Sat Mar 20, 2010 7:43 pm

The front hubs on a Plus 2 are the same as on the Elan with knock-ons.

The rear ones are different - the Plus 2 hubs are wider.

Putting bolt-ons onto the Plus 2 is easy on the front - use GT6 or Vitesse hubs. However, there's no easy way to do it on the back. I guess you could put Elan bolt-on hubs on with longer studs and wheel spacers, but the spacers would be quite wide (something like 13mm or more from memory) and I don't think that's recommended.

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PostPost by: pauljones » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:59 pm

Paddy,

Just reread my post,your right about the rears,i was sent some pics of the two together to show the difference.

Does anyone know if anybody has had a set made by the likes of Quaife ect??? Could be possable??

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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:04 pm

paddy wrote:The front hubs on a Plus 2 are the same as on the Elan with knock-ons.


The knock on front hubs for the Elan and +2 have different part numbers, 036 and 050 prefixes, respectively. I believe that the +2 front hubs move the wheel outboard a bit more as with the rear hubs.
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PostPost by: paddy » Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:20 pm

That's interesting. I don't have any evidence they're the same and could easily be wrong. I had assumed they were the same, with the same offset as the bolt-on hubs, because:

1) there would be no reason to make another part for the Plus 2 - the wishbones are the primary way that the track is widened so why not make the wishbones long enough to achieve the correct track?

2) the steering geometry would change if there was a different offset in the hub (ie a different "kingpin offset") - why compromise this?

Does anyone have both to compare side-by-side?

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PostPost by: gerrym » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:36 pm

Paddy, another variable for the steering geometry is the rim width but more importantly the wheel offset. Who knows what production cost avoidance (tooling) Ron was trying to achieve: presumably re-using some component from the Elan, eg the wheel centres.

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PostPost by: paddy » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:24 pm

gerrym wrote:Paddy, another variable for the steering geometry is the rim width but more importantly the wheel offset. Who knows what production cost avoidance (tooling) Ron was trying to achieve: presumably re-using some component from the Elan, eg the wheel centres.


Yes, I agree that the hub offset isn't the only variable involved.

I'm guessing again, but is it the case that the backspacing is the same on the Elan and Plus 2 wheels, with the additional width being on the outboard side?

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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:13 pm

Some one posted a link to a plus 2 parts manual awhile back. Having as many parts manuals is just a good idea so you can know where, and can figure the reasons WHY. I don't have the plus 2 anymore but I downloaded it anyway just for these types of questions. A quick look at the manual flashed in my mind the reason for the Plus 2 hubs being a different design for Both front and rear. That is the extra 1 inch wheel width that the Plus 2 has of the Elan, maybe when they designed the knock-on Lotus didn't want to change the Elan even though they knew the Plus 2 would have a wider rim. I guess I could post a link to the previous discussions but Mark has told me in the past that folks want to talk so I guess you can go and find them if you want to look. I did a search on "plus2 hubs" and got all of the previous talk, sometimes the search function actally works on this forum.
Oh yea, the rears are 7/8 inch per side wider, this is from memory but I looked when I did the search on Saturday.

5. knock on to bolt on conversion : Plus 2 [Forums - Plus 2]
... on hub. The type 50 (plus2) hub is 7/8 inch ... info regarding changing the plus 2 knock-on hubs to bolt-on type.the fronts appear to be ...
URL: elan-plus-f13/knock-bolt-conversion-t18504.html


p.s. - online plus2 parts manual available - Thursday, December 3, 2009 5:54 PM

http://www.type50.com/plus2/Technical%2 ... Manual.pdf

see elan.net topic

elan-plus-f13/elan-registry-plus-t19637.html

9.3 meg file for the laptop or garage puter
Last edited by garyeanderson on Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: paddy » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:22 pm

I stand corrected. Just checked Robinshaw and Ross which also says that the Plus 2 front hub is "fractionally" wider.

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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:32 pm

paddy wrote:1) there would be no reason to make another part for the Plus 2 - the wishbones are the primary way that the track is widened so why not make the wishbones long enough to achieve the correct track?


There was at least one reason. With the introduction of the significantly heavier +2 Lotus went to the larger diameter Vitesse/GT6 front stub axles with attendant changes to the upright and larger wheel bearings. At the very least the front hub would have to change to accommodate the larger OD wheel bearings. I believe these changes were later incorporated into the Elan. However the front hubs for the Elan all have an 026 or 036 prefix indicating changes other than just accommodating the larger wheel bearings.
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PostPost by: paddy » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:16 pm

Elan bolt-ons have the smaller (Herald/Spit) stub axles and bearings, Elan knock-ons have the larger (Vitesse/GT6) ones. I think this is the reason for the 026 / 036 part numbering difference.

That's my understanding, anyway.

There was (at least) one earlier discussion about it here:

elan-f15/small-large-front-upright-t15259.html

Another possible reason for the hub change on the Plus 2 just occurred to me, which is the clearance required for the larger type 16 caliper.

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PostPost by: oldelanman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:41 pm

Jonathon,
If you are looking for a set of knock-on hubs these have just been listed on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOTUS-ELAN-S4-KNOCK-ON-HUBS_W0QQitemZ150426386956QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item23061c820c

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