Lotus Elan

+2 S130/5 Servo - where to get?

PostPost by: Chickenhawk » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:01 pm

I went to run car around the block as it's been sitting idle for too long with all this snow only to have my foot go straight to the floor on the brake pedal.

On closer inspection no brake fluid in resovoir. No puddles on the floor so I'm assuming it can push past somewhere in the servo and fill that up??

Topped up resovoir and got a bit of pressure, but it's not right and it's probably got air in it now.

Can anyone tell me where to get a new servo.

Thanks
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PostPost by: 512BB » Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:52 pm

Well for a start, where the bloody hell are you?????? You will get a lot more response if you let folk know what country you are in!

I digress. Dont jump to conclusions Chicken. It may well be nothing to do with the servo, and probably isnt.

I had a very similar experience in my Elan, last year. Got to the end of the lane and no brakes. Managed to drive back home and into the garage without incident. Looked under the bonnet, no fluid in reservoir. Got under the car, i have a pit, and looked at all 4 corners. No fluid leak there. Checked around the servo and master cylinder, nothing. Got down into the drivers footwell, where the master cylinder pokes through. Tell tale dampness on carpet. Repaced rubbers in the cylinder, they were all squidgy, brakes as good as they have ever been. And i suspect that that is what you will find Chicken, but look around as it could be seals on a caliper, or indeed, your servo, but i doubt it.

Moral of this story, dont wait until your brakes fail before replacing all rubbers. Do it on a schedule, say 5 years for that job. Maybe thats to long. What say youall?

Same thing happened on another of my Elans, only with the clutch. Reservoir kept emptying. Same messy rubbers in m/cylinder, same damp carpet, same remedy. I shall replace them a lot more frequently in future.

Hope this helps,

Leslie

PS Whats your friggin name, cant keep calling you Chicken?
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PostPost by: bob_rich » Thu Jan 21, 2010 6:14 pm

Last week I had this type of problem but with the clutch--pedal to floor no resistance check master cyclinder no fluid. Topped up and bled all OK now. Car had been stood from 10th december to 17th january out in cold. I suspect the problem ( in my car) is rubber in the slave cylinder looks a bit weepy. If UR are having the same sort of problem with the brakes I suspect it will be rubbers on the master cylinders as other post suggested or one of the calipers. I think the cold weather exposure can find weeknesses in hydraulic seals that are close to failure.

hope this helps

Bob
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PostPost by: kstrutt11 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:56 pm

Mine did this a few years ago, left standing for a few weeks while the engine was out, put it back together and no brakes, I drained loads out of the servo, I replaced the seals but eventually It started losing fluid again so I fitted a smaller master cyl, greenstuff pads and ditched the servo, it is now much easier to bleed and has a realy good solid progressive pedal feel and never loses a drop.
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PostPost by: Chickenhawk » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:07 pm

Thanks for replies, did not check for damp carpets as replaced master brake and clucth cylinder last year with new from Christopher Neil.

Hopefully they would not have failed in this short time...but possible, will check carpets

However the above did supply new brake master cylinder with wrong length push rod which meant that the brakes just rubbed enough to sieze! :evil:

Martin - a garage in Chislehurst, Kent
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PostPost by: crannyr » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:21 pm

You have a PM
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PostPost by: alaric » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:26 pm

Hi. If it is the servo you can get it refurbished. Classic Car Brakes - I think that's their name - do the Girling IIB type which is what I assume you have fitted. It's not cheap, and the shelf life of the servo is appallingly short. Alternatively there's a lockhead version with the same mechanical gain (3:1) that some on the forum have fitted - Sean Murray has this unit I believe - sorry to drop your name in there Sean. The Lockhead type is available on ebay for ?85 I believe - not original but apparently ok. I have my Girling in pieces again waiting for re-assembly before I MOT the car. I may go for a Lockhead variant when I'm ready - apparently it doesn't lock up like the girling one can.

All the best.

Sean.
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PostPost by: terryp » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:39 pm

alaric wrote: I may go for a Lockhead variant when I'm ready - apparently it doesn't lock up like the girling one can.

Sean
I put a Lockhead on my previous car, pedal would go hard and it would lock up on pulling up to traffic lights!

Terry
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PostPost by: Chickenhawk » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:40 am

Thanks for replies :lol:
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PostPost by: peterako » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:10 am

terryp wrote:
alaric wrote: I may go for a Lockhead variant when I'm ready - apparently it doesn't lock up like the girling one can.

Sean
I put a Lockhead on my previous car, pedal would go hard and it would lock up on pulling up to traffic lights!

Terry


Apparntly this is to do with the how the Lockheed unit has been oriented in it's mounting. It NEEDS to be at a certain angle so that the seals are continutally lubed by fluid.
If it is not then the seals can get sticky -> and brakes lock.

I replaced my defunct Girling unit with a Lockheed about a year ago (maybe more) and took the mounting directions (both supplied and you can also read about it here and on the inter-webby) very seriously.

Locked brakes are more frightening than no brakes :shock:

Best of luck,
Peter
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PostPost by: terryp » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:22 am

peterako wrote:
terryp wrote:
alaric wrote: I may go for a Lockhead variant when I'm ready - apparently it doesn't lock up like the girling one can.

Sean
I put a Lockhead on my previous car, pedal would go hard and it would lock up on pulling up to traffic lights!

Terry


Apparntly this is to do with the how the Lockheed unit has been oriented in it's mounting. It NEEDS to be at a certain angle so that the seals are continutally lubed by fluid.
If it is not then the seals can get sticky -> and brakes lock.

I replaced my defunct Girling unit with a Lockheed about a year ago (maybe more) and took the mounting directions (both supplied and you can also read about it here and on the inter-webby) very seriously.

Locked brakes are more frightening than no brakes :shock:

Best of luck,
Peter


Peter
I mounted it the correct angle etc, I didn't get locked brakes as such , just a hard pedal and brakes slightly on occasionally coming up to traffic lights. On pressing the pedal it would clear. With the Girling I have now , no problems? I think it may occur in cars in accordance with the "Monte Carlo method of random sampling" :wink:

Terry
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PostPost by: gwiz22 » Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:14 pm

A number of you have mentioned brakes sticking on momentarily when braking into roundabouts. My Plus 2 suffered the same symptom when I first acquired it. The car whilst totally restored had been unused for quite some time. I isolated the servo as the problem straight away by disconnecting the vacuum pipe and plugging it.

I mentioned the problem to a chap on the Classicar Automotive (01625 860910) stand at the Lotus show, with a view to a servo overhaul. However, he advised that the problem was the small plunger in the servo sticks, particularly after non-use. The solution is a small spring, which he supplied for ?3 and a diagram of where to fit it. Job done. No further brake sticking.

What a great guy, he could have sold me a servo overhaul kit or maybe even a new servo. So you know where I will go the next time for brake parts.

I've attached the diagram.

Regards

Graham
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Lockhead Servo Diagram.pdf
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PostPost by: david.g.chapman » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:22 pm

Hi Graham,

That's good information - I have a +2 with a lockheed servo, and have had it for about 10 months - so far so good. I think it is worth fitting that spring though, and I have e-mailed ClassicCar Automotive to try and buy one. The .pdf diagram shows a spring already there next to the drawn arrow. Do you add the extra spring in the same position as a helper?

I have noticed that the brake fluid level drops with this servo very slowly (with normal use) - say 1 mm every 200 miles. No leaks when not used, and no sign of an external leak. Not enough to be a concern, but has anyone else had this?

Dave Chapman.
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PostPost by: alaric » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:12 pm

Hi. Thanks for the warning. I thought the Girling had an issue like this too - apologies if my memory was playing tricks on me - didn't mean to lead anyone astray. The only reason I'm anti Girling is that I had mine re-conditioned some time back, and when I tried it it was all gummed up, and the rubber elbow was split. Not impresses with the cost of parts. So, it'll be about the last job before the MOT - at which point I'll be so excited I won't care about the money.

Regards.

Sean.
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PostPost by: gwiz22 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:33 pm

Dave,

According to the chap at Classicar Automotive the spring used to be part of the Lockhead servo mechanism, hence the picture detailing it. Then for some reason they removed it from production, he didn't know the reason but assumed it may have been a cost reduction exercise.

Accordingly, if your servo is an early lockhead it might already have the spring. The diagram is an original lockhead document (detailing the spring) which the man at CA used to show me where to place the one he supplied. If your unit has the spring I assume you won't need another one.

Regards
Graham
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