Oversteer on corners

[elanfan1]

Perhaps I'm an engineer after all, as I suggested just that a few posts ago!

[Craven]

I read the detail of drilling the spindle with somewhat bemusement, even using a lathe drilling a central hole of over 4 inches long is quite a task. Finding a small drill bit long enough and stiff enough to drill a fairly hard piece of steel, is only one problem. I would not attempt this approach.
FWIW

[billwill]

Essentially just what I suggested above except I would use channel or box section for extra strength But Bill is clever enough to include a diagram

Your description was what triggered my message. I have built such a puller recently, but smaller to push out a stuck bolt in the trunnion bush, but I haven't actually used it yet.

Here's one I did earlier

A photo of the puller that I have made, but not used yet, to remove a stuck bolt in a trunnion bush. It will be used with a deep socket that the head of the bolt can slide into, with the round bolt on the puller fitting in the square hole of the socket.

I may need to add nuts inside the left bar, to lock the threaded rod to the bar, so that I can use a spanner on the nut on the other end of the threaded bar.

Trunnion-bush bolt remover.

[seniorchristo]

Hi Jon
I've read this thread from around page 9 and I'm not sure whether or not you have heated up the spindle, other than trying to weld on its end. I would suggest heating the spindle cherry red or as hot as possible without damaging anything or starting a fire This may break or loosen the rust bond between spindle and chassis tube so that (after cooling) when you attempt to push, pull or whatever on the spindle it may move easier. This method "worked like a charm" when removing an exhaust stud from a twin cam Europa. I do not see how the tube could be bent and think once loosened by heat, force or chemical means, it will come out.

I'll take the liberty of quoting from Certified Lotus' Europa rebuild thread

"I had SS exhaust studs to install, but first had to remove the studs already in the head. All came out easily except for one which the threads stripped immediately when I used my stud remover. Tried everything, the darn thing wouldn't budge. Contacted my friend Drew who said "use a torch to get the stud cherry red (not the aluminum head) and then let it cool. Use vise grips to remove. Worked like a charm."

[JonB]

@billwill

Looks good but I think the flat bars will bend immediately. I suggest shortening them or using something a bit more substantial. Maybe some 90 degree angle iron? Let me know how it goes.

When my LH side trunnion bolt refused to come out I just cut it and the trunnion in half with my angle grinder. Like this: lotus-suspension-f42/front-end-overhaul-t40806.html#p285461

@seniorchristo

Yes, I have heated the spindle up, but the best I can get is a dull cherry red with the blowtorch I have available to me. I also applied heat to the tube at both ends. Maybe I need a few more cycles? I do have a second blowtorch without gas - I may be able to deploy it simultaneously to get more heat onto the spindle. Might work? The main problem is that the spindle is relatively long and you can't get to it thanks to the tube and cross member, so if there's rust deep in the tube it will be difficult for the heat to reach it.

[JonB]

One more thing: I have a deadline now. My younger daughter wants me to take her to the school prom in the Lotus. That's in June..

[rgh0]

......The main problem is that the bar is long and you can't get to it, so if there's rust deep in the tube it will be difficult for the heat to reach it.

This is why drilling the tube close to the cross member and fitting grease nipples and pumping in under pressure the ATF / acetone may work as it can reach into the part of the tube you cant heat. if you see the solution come out the ends then its has cleared the exposed length and it should be going inwards the same amount.

I would then look at how I could weld on a nut to turn the pin in the tube which should release it and enable it to be tapped out. I would find a better welder to help weld on the nut if you cant do it satisfactorily

If I could not turn it to free the pin after all that then two choices in my mind:

1. Rig up a suitable high pressure hydraulic pusher or puller on the pin by threading the outside of the tube for anchorage and try to push and pull the pin out using hydraulic power

2. drill out the pin using a suitable guide and drill setup.

if in the end if drilling out the pin cant be done as the drill wanders into the tube from the pin to much then your back to cutting out the tube at Spyder and refitting it.

I have put my Elan on a trailer or flat tray a number of times with only 3 wheels as I have lost both front and back wheels at race meetings Just bolt a skid of some description on the chassis so it holds the body of the ground at that corner and the winch will pull it on the flat tray just find. A trolley jack under that corner and it will come of the flat tray just fine if needed also but it should be able to be pushed off once the tray is tilted if it does not slide as the winch is released.

cheers
Rohan

[rgh0]

One more thought
If you end up drilling the pin and the drill wanders into the tube then tap the end of the pin and inject atf/ acetone into the drilled out pin and it will work to release rust deep into the tube where the drill hole has gone

cheers
Rohan

[JonB]

I was talking to Andy @ Spyder this morning. He thinks the best thing to try is heat on the bush (tube) ends, but using oxy-acetylene as a butane torch can't get it hot enough quickly enough. He says he's done quite a few like this and only one or two ever beat him (which is good news from my perspective, because it affords some hope).

Now to find someone nearby who has the right equipment. If I can't, I'll have to take a long trip with a trailer.

[rgh0]

Jon
You keep straying in other directions from what I say during this thread which is based on an engineering degree and 40 years of experience and thought maintaining an Elan and Plus two which included total rebuilds of ex UK cars that were totally rusted up in the suspension joins and dealing with your type of circumstance. Sorry if my advice does not make sense and provided you with no help as I always try to help fellow owners who need technical advice and practical approaches to issues faced.

So good luck and in the end its nothing that a new chassis will not fix

Rohan

PS I would take Spyders advice how to remove a corroded in pin with a few grains of salt personally

[Craven]

Please remember the chassis does not have infinite strength, clamping bars of a puller will transfer the force directly to the chassis. I don?t know the steel gauge of the X member but I think it?s quite possible to dent it.
FWIW
True penetrating oil uses capillary action, where the very thin fluid is drawn in, no pressure required.

[JonB]

Jon
You keep either ignoring what I say during this thread which is based on an engineering degree and 40 years of experience and thought maintaining an Elan and Plus two which included total rebuilds of ex UK cars that were totally rusted up in the suspension joins and dealing with your type of circumstance. Sorry I appear to have wasted my time.

So good luck and in the end its nothing that a new chassis will not fix.

Rohan

PS I would take Spyders advice how to remove a corroded in pin with a few grains of salt personally

Sorry Rohan.

I'm not ignoring you.

I don't (yet) have the tools to drill and tap the pin for a grease nipple, and I worry that the tube might get damaged. There are several other approaches I have yet to try, but my problem is it is -2 degrees C in my (unheated) garage right now and I have much less time available to me as I work full time with a 2 hour commute each way.

To be honest, I'm not entirely clear on how this should be done. Should it be drilled at the point where the spindle touches the tube (this would damage the inner edge of the tube) or in the centre of the spindle but at an angle, so that the drill hole intersects the area where the spindle touches the tube, inboard of the tube's end? The problem with this is there is a danger I may drill through the tube.

[vincereynard]

Have you tried the simple tube idea yet. Easy and, if it does not work, no loss.

Tell you what Jon if your car's not ready by June, you can borrow Toad.

We cannot disappoint a daughter - action of a bounder!

[billwill]

Please remember the chassis does not have infinite strength, clamping bars of a puller to it will transfer the force directly to the chassis. I don?t know the steel gauge of the X member but I think it?s quite possible to dent it.
FWIW

Thats why the hole in the bar at the rear end has to be just a slight clearance fit on the tube, so that the weld and tube will take some of the stress.

~~~

I don't think my trunnion puller will bend, its not obvious in the photo but the flat bar is quite wide. and it is thicker than the usual angle-iron. It's some of the stuff I used to make bases for my wrought-iron railings and that took a bending machine with a 3 + 1/2 foot lever to do the bending.

[JonB]

Have you tried the simple tube idea yet. Easy and, if it does not work, no loss.

Tell you what Jon if your car's not ready by June, you can borrow Toad.

We cannot disappoint a daughter - action of a bounder!

Haven't tried it yet, garage a bit too cold. But is next on my list. Thanks for the offer to borrow Toad, it's quite a drive to get here (1hr 45 mins if Google is to be believed), is the old fellow up to it?

@billwill - good show - let us know how well it works for you!