Oversteer on corners

[nmauduit]

I posted pictures earlier on in the thread.

Only one side of the spindle has been cut off. The other side still has a full thread and might be slightly bent. I'm not sure because I cannot get underneath it. Car is mounted too low. Either way it's marginal if bent.

yes, I had seen it at some point, and the spindle did not particularly strike me as the rusty bit... so I wondered what might cause this one being stuck and not an other one... under the light of a potential steering issue : hence my question about how it looked before been sawn off.

In any case, rusted or bent, when it has to go, it has to go - esp. now that there is only half of it left. Depending on your patience, after spraying a variety of fluids and applying heat and cold a number of cycles (when doing so I would keep it under tension - not hitting too hard on the short side if you do, so as not to fatten it), if it is still there you'll have to get physical : there is only one direction to pull really now, so you may need to work out a stiff brace to push on a broad part of the turret without risking to damage it (maybe an L steel angle bar drilled in the middle to the spindle long bit and with 2 alloy flats to spread the load on the turret, will have to embedded the reinforcing cone), and I would cut or file whatever remains on the other side, and drill as much as seems reasonable to weaken the side that has to go through. You may need to braze the replacement part in case of drilling/filing damage to the tube, but as long as the centering is tight that in itself should not alter the geometry.

good luck !

[Bigbaldybloke]

I can confirm that on a Spyder chassis it is definitely a tube that goes right through the upright. I believe Spyder have a repair scheme that they effectively use a hole saw and cut out the metal around the sprindle and weld in another boss with the new spindle tube in it. That is your last resort, not sure if it can be done with body on chassis or not. In the meantime good luck with the heating and soaking in penetrating fluid. Drilling out the spindle will be hard as they should be made of something like EN16T steel so you?ll need good quality drill bits. I know, I bought a length of steel and made my own spindles and making four spindles chewed up two good quality dies.

[JonB]

Finally the ATF & Acetone arrived, so I made up a batch and painted it on the spindle (see the other thread for pictures).

I made a new crush proof spacer from an old track rod end, drilled out to 13mm. It fits the spindle perfectly.

Then I fitted it with a washer and wound a double nut onto the end of the spindle with a long ratchet. Applied heat to the spacer to expand it. Torqued the nuts up, applied heat to the tube at both ends. Nothing. Whacked the front end with a lump hammer. Nothing.

The thread is starting to look damaged. Any more abuse and it is gone.

All I can do now is apply more of the penetrating fluid. I may be able to use other parts of the thread with appropriate spacers, but I am beginning to doubt that I will ever get it out. Last resort will be welding a nut to it to apply twisting force, but it'll probably just shear off.

I have no idea how to get it to Spyder and back. How can it roll onto a flat bed with only three wheels?

[billwill]

Use a trolley jack in place of the 4th wheel?

You may be able to continue the existing thread further down the shaft using the appropriate die, or even thin down the shaft and cut a new thread the next size down.

Meanwhile make maximum use of the good bit of thread, by shortening your spacer so that the washer between nut & spacer only just covers the first turn of thread when in place. Looking at it a nut would then have full thread engagement through out. If the shaft starts to move you may then need to insert more washers between the nut & your spacer.

[Craven]

Can a small pilot hole be drilled, at an angle, into the boss so penetrating fluid can be injected as far as possible along the spindle.
If totally desperate use this idea and drill through the chassis leg into the tube/sleeve again to get fluid as far as possible along the spindle.
I still think turning the spindle will be the key, if bent will never come out as you will be trying to straighten it by driving it through the tube, if you have a try square check for a bend.
FWIW

[pauljones]

Jon

I hope you get this out, can you re thread the spindle?
I have a few concerns, most importantly is when its out, if it been bent then how and why? Also whats the further damage and can you get another in?
My Dad reminded me of a product poeple used in the early days of cobra replicas. They used it as grease but it hardened dry to the point it acted as a glue, destroyed many a back axle.
Do you have space for a hydraulic hub puller in there? A two legged may do the trick.
I know you've had lots of advice but i do hope you can free it. Fingers crossed.

[JonB]

Not being one to hang around, I thought I'd weld a nut to it and apply some turning force.

Unfortunately, my welding stinks and I can't get the nut to stick. It always turns.

So now I have a slagged nut and crusty bits of welding wire all over the spindle.

I got arc eye too. Am seriously pissed off.

Not my day.

[Orsom Weels]

Hi Jon,
Looking back at your photo's, it looks like the cut end of the spindle is quite burred & swollen, & if so, you are trying to pull that into the tube using the method you are trying. It may perhaps be better to try getting it out in the opposite direction. There are two ways I can see of doing this without belting hell out of the 'good' end & swelling that also. The first would be to drill into the cut end & tap a thread into the spindle, then use a bolt with your spacer. screwing the bolt into the spindle against the spacer will pull the spindle forward. The problem I can see with this is drilling access is difficult & the spindle will be hard to drill & tap. The second method, & probably the one I'd try, if you still can, is to screw a nut onto the threaded end, to the end of the thread, so it bear up against the un-threaded part of the spindle, then place your spacer tube over the remaining thread so you can hit the spacer without damaging the thread. Hopefully then it may give in. Some heat on the stub of the tube may help also.

Regards, Tim

[Donels]

I agree with Tim. The lump hammer treatment has swaged the short end and it's never going to come out in the current direction. Try two nuts locked together and hammer against the nuts, thus protecting the thread, and drive it the other way. Don't use just brute force with a lump hammer. If you bend it you're stuffed.

[JonB]

I already tried two nuts on the end of the thread + hammer. There is not enough space to swing it properly. I'm not trying to pull the spindle out at the threaded end, all I need to do is break the rust bond, then I can grind the peened over end back and draw the spindle out.

But I'm beginning to suspect it is bent. There was no rust on the other three.

There is very little access for drilling and tapping, besides, I don't have the kit.

I really do not know how I can get it to Spydercars. I work full time and as I said, I'm not sure I can even get the car onto a trailer with only three wheels. A jack isn't going to work, the wheels are too small. They would get stuck on every bit of uneven ground.

Bloody nightmare.

[richardcox_lotus]

If you are admitting defeat then your main focus is how you can get the wishbones assembled enough to support a corner whilst the car is being pushed. Even with the bent spindle, is there no way you can get the wishbone back on it with a securing nut even with just half a turn ?

[vincereynard]

Getting it to Spyder must be regarded as a very last resort. Certainly would be for me!

If the spindle is bent, quite probably so is the support tube inside the box. No chance of getting it out. I don't see you have much option other than to use an angle grinder to cut away the where spindle support tube is welded to the frame and remove the lot. Spindle and tube. Get a new tube and have a competent welded tack in place.

You can make a one off jig from the other side centered on the top spindle. Larger washers, (centre the OD of the tube), if you want to spread the load. At least it would then be mobile. I doubt a Spyder chassis is mm accurate.

[Bigbaldybloke]

Jon, I?ve been thinking on how you could get the car back on to four wheels to take it to Spyder or somewhere to get the spindle and tube cut out and a new tube welded in.
It?s a very temporary solution to get the car on a trailer but here goes.
Clean up the end with the spindle still sticking out, file grinder or whatever, it doesn?t need to be good, just enough the get the arm and bush on it loosely. One the other end, drill and tap it 3/8unf. Make up a bush from 3/8 to 1/2? and bolt the other suspension arm into place. If it?s not very secure put a ratchet strap around the two wishbones to keep them together, this should get the car moveable enough to get it on a trailer. Last resort I know but it may be your only option. If you want to remove the spindle tube it?s either grind off the weld or if you can get access, a hole saw might give a neater solution. Either way, rest the eyes and bathe them if really bad. Good luck, I suspect you?ll need it, currently it looks like if you didn?t have bad luck you?d have no luck at all.

[Bigbaldybloke]

I?ve been thinking some more, if the spindle and tube are bent, no matter what you do and how much force you apply, you won?t turn the spindle in the tune. Your only chance is a straight pull and that?s doubtful if it?s bent much. Pretty much sums up what you have found, as with all the work you have done, if it was just corrosion holding the spindle in, it would have loosened by now. Sorry, but I reckon both the spindle and tube are bent which means a new tube and spindle, so why spend any more time and effort trying to remove the spindle yourself, get it to someone who can cut out the tube and weld a new one in accurately. I hate admitting defeat but sometimes you just have to.

[JonB]

At least Spyder can do it in situ, and they have a jig for this very purpose. I'd probably give up and scrap the car it if the body had to come off first. I want to do a body off resto, but not until I retire and have a bigger garage.

Thing is, although I said I suspected it was bent, I'm not entirely sure. I can't see how the tube itself could get bent, without some deformation of the welded parts on the crossmember. I can't see any evidence of that. I might also expect a fraction more clearance on one side of the spindle between it and the tube when viewed end on. So I think the next step will be to take a closer look at the spindle, which means raising the car higher so I can get right underneath it.

I may be wasting my time, but knowing more is better. Getting the car to Peterborough is going to be a logistical challenge for me, and expensive; so as you rightly say it's the very last resort. Regarding temporary assembly of the suspension, I did wonder if I might fit the front arm over the remains of the cut off spindle and clamp both with a strap, but it will probably come off. But if we are talking about tapping a thread in there, we are back to drilling the spindle with all the clearance issues that entails.

So. I need a 90 degree drill thingie (for clearance) and a good imperial tap & die set, plus some quality drill bits (as all mine are dull). Also, a means of keeping it square while drilling. I've used something similar on an electric screwdriver and found it very difficult to keep straight due to torque and lack of leverage. The thing wants to lay on its side under torque.

Is there such a thing as a chuck extension? Like a bar with a chuck on the end of it? It would work like a very long drill bit. With something like that I could hold the drill square on as it would be out from under the car.

I'm open to suggestions!