why compress rear suspension to remove?

[rgh0]

Hi Dan
The assembled struts look nice - I have had a new set of Konis waiting to be fitted to my Elan for about 12 months now and you have inspired me to get on and fit them

I always use anti sieze on any bolts in the suspension that are exposed to the weather ( and any where else where I think a bolt may sieze). Makes getting them off at a later date so much easier.

If the supplied lock washer does not fit on the top of the strut then just use some loctite. Over the years I have previously either used Nylocks or castellated nuts and a split pin depending on what was supplied with the shock tube.

cheers
Rohan

[collins_dan]

Thanks Rohan. Mine sat around for a year before assembly as well. Thanks for the advice on anti-seize. That is what I was thinking. My previous nuts were castellated with split pins. These nuts seem intended for use with the lock washers. Maybe I will try to locate some Nylocks. Cheers, Dan

[collins_dan]

As I was installing the right rear suspension, I noticed that the back half of the weld at the top tower was cracked and back side had buckled and cracked as well. Its hard to get a picture of it. Clearly I am going to have to have this re-welded. Can this be done without removing the body? I'm thinking that the front corner of the trunk could be cut out for access, then re-fiberglassed back in. Is it safe to drive? Thanks, Dan

[ardee_selby]

As I was installing the right rear suspension, I noticed that the back half of the weld at the top tower was cracked and back side had buckled and cracked as well. Its hard to get a picture of it. Clearly I am going to have to have this re-welded. Can this be done without removing the body? I'm thinking that the front corner of the trunk could be cut out for access, then re-fiberglassed back in. Is it safe to drive? Thanks, Dan

Hi Dan,

I can't make out in your pic where the fracture is exactly. But not the sort of thing you want to find...

My experience with the "ears" was that despite having taken a real hammering and were distorted (similar to this picture: download/file.php?id=16256) the welds themselves hadn't cracked.

The bending is/was a gradual process...but a fracture could grow very quickly. If it let go suddenly...a nasty outcome! Any idea of how long it might have been like that?

As far as the repair? I wouldn't cut the body about, but understand why you ask the question. I would also consider adding the strengthening fillets to the ears, sim to the AVO / TT frame mod.

Hope I'm not being over pessimistic.

Good Luck - Richard

[nebogipfel]

Dan,
As Richard says it's hard to see from the pictures exactly where the crack is.

I too understand why you would be tempted to cut the shell to gain access and providing it would give you good access to the problem and although a somewhat crude approach there is no reason why you can't do it and re 'glass the area successfully.

The problem I can see is that it's going to be difficult to assess the full extent of the problem, clean the area properly to make good welds to the damage and also to be able to add any stiffeners you might think it needs.

If you do decide to weld it in situ' I would be inclined to keep an eye on the area in the future

This illustrates the difficulty of inspecting a Lotus chassis in situ. I hope the other side is OK because I am guessing the non-standard heavier? springs have been hammering the mounting points.

Good Luck.

[collins_dan]

I appreciate your thoughts. My guess is that the main damage was done 30 years ago, when it was raced extensively. Since I can't get a good picture, I will do my best to describe. If you look at it straight on, the left half of the weld is cracked and the left side of the ear can be moved up and down. If you picture the left side, which is sort of upside down triangle, it is completely separated along the upright section. It would seem to have taken incredible force to buckle the left side, press it into the upright and rip the metal open, or it could have been minor and time has just taken it to the point it is today. The other side is fine, by the way. I am not capable of taking the body off, or of paying someone to do it for me at this time. Going through the trunk would seem to provide excellent access for repair and strengthening. I appreciate everyone thoughts. Dan

[nebogipfel]

....... I am not capable of taking the body off, or of paying someone to do it for me at this time. .....

That pretty much answers the question then Dan. If it has to be a body on repair then you need to do as much body surgery as you can to get the best possible access to review the extent of the problem, clean the fractures to be welded properly and effect repairs.

FWIW I would entrust the work to someone whos welding skills you trust.

It's like all these things, it will always be a compromise and it certainly sounds like that area of the chassis has had a very hard life.

At least it's a relatively simple job to repair and restore the strength to the fibreglass areas afterwards.

I hope it goes well

[collins_dan]

John, Thanks for the reassurance. I'm quite upset about it, but also glad I found it as my kids ride in the car with me. The guys that would do the job for me are very experienced with lotus frames. They have one hanging on the wall for reference and artist value. I am moving on to the front suspension replacement, but first some wheel well repair and painting. At some point the tires impacted the front fiberglass and wore holes in it. This old boy had a harder life than I realized when I bought it. Cheers, Dan

[ardee_selby]

<snip> The guys that would do the job for me are very experienced with lotus frames. They have one hanging on the wall for reference and artist value.

Dan,

That's good to learn. One point to bear in mind, though.
The Ted Rogers/Ken Claiborne write up on AVO frame mods(http://www.lotuselan.net/publish/avo_fr ... ions.shtml)
includes the following paragraph:

"It is quite common for the front cross member air reservoir to contain remnants of brake fluid or petrol. While welding, these can ignite and at a minimum, scare the beejeebers out of you. Similar stories are told of other closed areas containing rust preventative petrochemicals. Proceed with caution".

The mention of "other closed areas" was a reference to my experience of rear turrets that had been "Waxoyled" and reached its flash point!

Professional car repairers tell of similar scenarios when welding sill sections that have been injected with rust preventative oils...

Cheers - Richard

[collins_dan]

Richard, Good to know. Yet another reason why I will have someone experienced perform the fix. I imagined they would remove the gas tank, but hadn't thought about other spaces. Thanks. Cheers, Dan

[Sea Ranch]

'Twill be interesting for you to hear what your professional frame/welders think of doing this repair with the body on. Really, they are the ones who should render an opinion on this repair (certainly not someone like me ).

If indeed they are experienced in Lotus frame repair/restoration, and if they are not the sort of business to simply do whatever the owner asks them to do, then you are in a preferred situation. Take the car to them, point out the fractures and, without telling them how you want it fixed, ask them for their honest opinion on what should be done to remedy it.

If they say it's reasonable to attempt a fix in situ, and the fix will be durable, then great. If they say "pull the body", then you have your answer.

Personally (and this is just from my position of having never pulled a Lotus body), I'm not sure why you say you can't. I am looking at a full mechanical rebuild coming up, and I would not want to attempt it with the body on because - notwithstanding all the fuss and labour of removing the body - I know the mechanical work will be 10 times easier and will be done to perfection.

Of course, always easier to anticipate than to accomplish in "real time"

Just my 2 cents worth, your mileage may vary, FWIW, et cetera, et cetera.

Randy

[fatboyoz]

Dan,
Don't want to ba an alarmist, but when I purchased my S4 back in '87 my R/H front tyre was occassionally touching the inner guard and was steadily wearing away the fibreglass. On closer inspection, the R/H chassis rail, just forward of the r/h engine mount was cracked half way through. Might be worthwhile having a real good look at all parts of the chassis for distortion/cracking whilst you are doing repairs.
Regards,
Colin.
P.S. I ended up with a new chassis, as it had had previous, bad, repairs carried out.

John, Thanks for the reassurance. I'm quite upset about it, but also glad I found it as my kids ride in the car with me. The guys that would do the job for me are very experienced with lotus frames. They have one hanging on the wall for reference and artist value. I am moving on to the front suspension replacement, but first some wheel well repair and painting. At some point the tires impacted the front fiberglass and wore holes in it. This old boy had a harder life than I realized when I bought it. Cheers, Dan

[collins_dan]

Randy and Colin, Thanks for your replies. I should hear back shortly from the shop. As to the front. I pulled the front suspension off and everything is perfect. I had the engine out only a year or so ago and the frame was fine, and the contact front the tires to the front fiberglass was on both sides, just enough more on the right side to wear through in spots. As to my skills for taking on a full body removal and welding the frame, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I am so novice compared to all of you that its embarrassing. Just check my history of posts. All the best, Dan

[memini55]

Dan,
I know I am late to the party here with my reply on the frame crack. Yes you can cut open the trunk and patch back together without too much notice. If you were mine and doing the repair I would lift the body as it is a fairly easy job as One crack would lead me to others or at the very least a good cleaning and adding stiffener plates to all areas that tent to crack. Since I would guess your chassis is the original and you know it was raced then I would want the comfort of long term fix. I will attach a couple pictures of the added plates everyone has mentioned to you as I have done this frame work a couple times with great results.

The other issue with a crack if it is not repaired well when you think you have it stopped it will crack again just out side the repair.

Best of luck with the repair
Mark

[collins_dan]

Mark, Thanks for the reply. I did talk to the shop and they can go in through the trunk. I have checked the frame thoroughly and the only issue is that one spot and it is very limited. The strategy is to repair the weld at the bottom of the ear and on the back side, then add a strengthening plate. What may be fairly easy thing for you folks is way over my head. I'm still trying to get the carbs I rebuilt last year to return to idle properly. Don't vote me off the island, but I am not in the same league as the rest of you. All the best, Dan