Lotus Elan

Huco fuel pump

PostPost by: MickG » Mon Nov 18, 2013 11:17 am

One of the jobs I intend to do this winter is to install an electric fuel pump. As I currently have the engine out now would be a good time.
Has any one installed one of the following pumps http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/HUCO.html
They seem on the face of it a good replacement as they are a suction pump, can be installed in the engine bay and are low pressure. Installation would be a lot easier as the existing pipe could be used with no faffing about in the boot(trunk) installing pressure regulators etc.
Your comments and observations would be most welcome.
Thanks

MickG
MickG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Location: Essex,UK

PostPost by: ricarbo » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:52 pm

I haven't fitted one of these but have been thinking about it. From what I have picked up, it's a similar design to the old SU pump used on MGBs etc, so doesn't make too much noise. As the twincam needs a fuel pressure of 1.25 to 2.5 psi, the lower pressure 13 3010 version would seem to be the choice at 2.2 psi. Originally, I was intending to fit this in the boot, as it seems a clean and protected place for it, but I read in Brian Bucklands excellent book that it is not a good idea to put the standard fuel pipe between tank and original fuel pump under pressure for fear of causing a leak. He says you should use more pressure resistant couplings, replace the plastic pipe with a metal one and fit a fuel filter. This isn't easy, given the route of the pipe, so maybe under bonnet installation sounds better.
if I do install one, I shall pay attention to the wiring, so that the pump does not run if the ignition is on but the engine is stopped - thinking that if the car is crashed you wouldn't want the pump to continue, which is, of course, what happens with the original mechanical fuel pump. It's possible to include a push switch to override this to allow priming of the carbs. Perhaps an alternative is an inertia switch.
regards
Richard
ricarbo
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 271
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Location: Hove, East Sussex, England

PostPost by: TroonSprint » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:44 pm

I like that pump and may get one for my Sprint. I would like it to be in the engine bay for all the reasons stated above, assuming there is enough room. Regarding safety aspects, many cars now use a special fuel pump relay that takes a signal from the ignition coil (or ECU on cars that have such a thing). The beauty of these relays is that they will shut the pump off if the signal from the coil stops. On first being powered up, they generally allow the pump to run for a couple of seconds to prime the carbs, and of course you can also fit an over-ride switch. Have a look at this http://www.ratwell.com/mirror/www.dolphinsci.com/relay.html. Unfortunately the diagram on the page doesn't work on my computer.
Mike
User avatar
TroonSprint
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 562
Joined: 24 Nov 2011
Location: Troon, SW Scotland

PostPost by: billwill » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:37 pm

Very Interesting.

Does the existence of these Fuel pump relays imply that the use of Intertia switches as a saftey precaution has not been satisfactory in practice in modern cars or have they been using belt & braces and fit both one of these relays AND an intertia switch.

~~
The relays are readily available on eBay by the looks of it, though choosing the most suitable one for our Elans might be tedious.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_nkw=r ... ump&ff19=0


I found a website forum that includes a wiring diagram.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=226346

Image
Last edited by billwill on Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4721
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: MickG » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:54 pm

Yes interesting but what about the pump

MickG
MickG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Location: Essex,UK

PostPost by: billwill » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:05 pm

MickG wrote:Yes interesting but what about the pump

MickG



Well you wouldn't want to put in an electric pump without any safety precautions would you? :D
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4721
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: MickG » Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:46 pm

Don't worry Bill full safety and anti theft features will be installed. Non electronic I might add, I don't trust things you can't see working.
I was more interested in comments and observations, if any, on the pump itself.

Regards MickG
MickG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Location: Essex,UK

PostPost by: ricarbo » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:19 pm

You might get a users experience by looking at one of the other classic car sites. I vaguely remember something from someone with a Triumph GT6, complete with photos of him installing it in the snow! Hardy types, these Triumph owners.
regards
richard
ricarbo
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 271
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Location: Hove, East Sussex, England

PostPost by: joc » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:26 am

Fitted one of these to a TR3a, very satisfactory.One additional convenience is being able to rotate the inlet/outlet pipes to suit the particular application.
The relays referred to in a previous post are, I suspect, for fuel injection and the pump might well be controlled by an ECU which would require a relay.
An inertia switch is the usual way of providing a cut-off to stop the pump in the event of an accident. It should be mounted directly to the body. An oil pressure switch could be used as an alternative although it is trickier to wire and the pump will continue to run if the engine is running after an accident. Wiring it to an ignition switched source would mean that turning the key would stop the pump running when the engine is switched off. A switch is an additional convenience,switching on to check for leaks without the engine running being one example, switching the pump off before stopping the engine being an easy way to empty the carbs.being another. An inline fuse would always be an additional advantage in an Elan. John
joc
New-tral
 
Posts: 10
Joined: 31 Aug 2008

PostPost by: MickG » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:42 am

Thanks John,
Would appear to be a good alternative to the other pumps mentioned in previous threads. I will in all probability be installing much as you suggest, an inertia switch as oposed to an oil presure or electronic thingy,
Thanks for your time.

Regards MickG
MickG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Location: Essex,UK

PostPost by: billwill » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:53 pm

MickG wrote:Don't worry Bill full safety and anti theft features will be installed. Non electronic I might add, I don't trust things you can't see working.
I was more interested in comments and observations, if any, on the pump itself.

Regards MickG


You do realise that those HUCO pumps have electronics inside them don't you?

:D :) :D :lol:

Joc, yes the relays are designed for fuel injection systems where, due to their higher fuel pressure, it is even more important that they do not run after an accident, but the point is that these relays can ALSO be used in classic cars with electric pumps as an ADDITIONAL safety precaution, with very little extra wiring. Such a relay can be used in addition to an inertia switch and is simpler than the oil pressure switch option. The oil pressure switch option REQUIRES an override button, because it takes a few revs of the engine to build up the oil pressure wheras the VW pump relay will switch on from the very first spark pulse.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
billwill
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 4721
Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Location: London UK

PostPost by: MickG » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:48 pm

Bill you just burst my bubble :lol:
Regards
MickG
MickG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Location: Essex,UK

PostPost by: ricarbo » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:56 pm

Mick, if you had an MGB or a Mini years ago, this would have had an SU pump with contact breakers much like a distributor. Particularly on the MG, where the pump was in the wheel arch and exposed to the elements, failure of these points was a common problem, leaving you stranded far more often than the mechanical pump on the twincam. To the point where conversions were made to substitute the unreliable points with electronics. The general view of the SU was that the points were the veritable achillees heel.
The Huco looks like a decent modern update on the SU, but if you are sufficiently determined to avoid electronics, I think you can still buy an SU complete with points.
regards
Richard
ricarbo
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 271
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Location: Hove, East Sussex, England

PostPost by: Quart Meg Miles » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:06 pm

My reason for fitting a fuel pump was to overcome the inability to suck the alcohol loaded fuel from the tank though I can't swear that the mechanical pump wasn't the problem. So my pump, though not a Huco, is in the boot and the problem has gone away.

Buckland's concern is unwarranted when using proper fittings.
Meg

26/4088 1965 S1½ Old and scruffy but in perfect working order; the car too.
________________Put your money where your mouse is, click on "Support LotusElan.net" below.
User avatar
Quart Meg Miles
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 995
Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Location: Barnham, W Sussex, UK

PostPost by: MickG » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:14 am

Richard, funnily enough back in the day I did in fact own a Mini and completely rebuilt an MGB. I can?t exactly remember where the fuel pump was on the Mini but as you say the MGB pump was situated just up inside the rear arch somewhere. I think it was pretty standard to carry a long broom handle so you could open the door and give it a thump to get it going. Sold the B soon after I finished it as I didn?t like the driving experience. Not like the Lotus I owned in my yoof. The comment regarding electronics was rather tongue in cheek.

Meg,
Thanks for the reply. You may remember that we have discussed this before via PM. You may have swayed me back to the boot option but when it comes to the correct fittings I?m a bit of a numpty. I?ll be in touch asking for your guidance and what fittings to purchase.

Regards MickG
MickG
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 314
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Location: Essex,UK
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests