Lotus Elan

Facet fuel pump

PostPost by: jimbo » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:54 pm

Hi All,

I've been having some fun and games getting my Sprint started. :roll:

I've verified I have a spark at each of the plugs, so I now suspect the fuel supply. Should my fuel pump (a Facet electric unit) go quiet once the carbs are primed or do they tick continuously?

The plan is to disconnect the output from the Facet pump and direct it into a container to prove the pump is still working.

Cheers,

James
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PostPost by: steveww » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:37 pm

Mine ticks like crazy when first turned on, then settle to a gentle clock like tick once the carbs are primed.

The facets are easy to strip and clean/inspect.
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PostPost by: chrishewett » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:05 pm

James,
Mine ticks all the time.
If you have webers try taking the top off the carbs and checking the fuel level.
Chris
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PostPost by: DJThom » Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:46 pm

I'm no expert in this field, but check out this website:

http://www.racetep.com/webfuelspark.html#webfuel

The reader's digest version is that Facet pumps are high pressure with low thruput versus the Carter pumps.

I took his word for it and bought the Carter pump. No issues or problems, but it is LOUD and runs all the time.
'66 Lotus Elan S2 Roadster RHD
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PostPost by: 264889socal » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:24 am

My DPO fitted a continous pulsing pump, tic, tic, tic. Runs faster when the float bowls are dry and slows down when presure builds. He mounted it directly to the body and the noise was obtrusive. I found some round rubber isolators with 1/4" studs on each side. Fitted them between the pump and the body shell and now can barely hear the pump with the engine running at an idle.

Rob
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PostPost by: jimbo » Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:42 am

chrishewett wrote:James,
Mine ticks all the time.
If you have webers try taking the top off the carbs and checking the fuel level.
Chris

Chris.

Mine ticks pretty quickly to start with, but then slows down ...

Yes its on Webbers. I'm a complete novice on carbs though so I've been following a policy of "if you don't understand it, leave it alone". In a moment of bravery I did take off the two little inspection covers and all was dry. Should I be able to see fuel through them?

Having said I've not fiddled, I did have the carbs off to fit new o-rings and thackaray washers, so maybe I've disturbed some sediment that was in the carbs by tipping them ... :?:

Cheers,

James
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PostPost by: steveww » Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:54 pm

BTW If you are using an electric fuel pump you will most likely need a fuel pressure regulator or the carbs will flood.
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PostPost by: jimbo » Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:28 pm

I disconnected the output from the Facet and directed it to a fuel can and the pump is definitely pumping fuel! I also took the tops off the carbs and both have fuel in them.

So I've got a spark at each plug (visible from a set of inline spark testers) and fuel in the carbs, but the engine just turns over without the slightest hint of firing. The spark plugs are brand new, so I don't suspect them ... :?

Now I'm wondering if the battery is not turning the engine over fast enough.

Any ideas anyone?
Last edited by jimbo on Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:03 pm

Have you checked ignition timing and that the spark plug HT leads are going to the correct plugs? I have bought bad spark plugs before but usually it has been one out of the four. The engine should not have to spin very fast to start.
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PostPost by: jimbo » Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:49 pm

I've checked and double checked the HT leads. The distributor cap is marked up and the leads all correspond, so I don't think it's that.

The car was running fine prior to being off the road for 5-6 weeks, so I don't think it's the spark plugs either, unless they can go bad?

The original problem was that it was weeping some petrol from the carb manifold, so I replaced the thackaray washers and o-rings. I then got a bit enthusiastic and replaced the airbox, backplate, flexible pipe and put a K&N down in the nose. That took a lot longer than anticipated, hence the protracted period of time without the car being run.

It fired up last weekend when I finally got it all back together, but was running a bit rough and blowing more oil that I've seen before. The throttle spring also jammed on the carb body so I turned it off. Since then, it's refused to start.

I removed the K&N just in case that was affecting the tune, but to no avail. As per my last post, inline spark testers are showing a spark, so the coil and distributor seem OK. The fuel pump also checked out and there was some fuel in the carbs when I removed the tops.

However, the fuel pipe to the rear carb has a marked crease in it in the metal section, but the carb did have fuel in it. Looking at photos of the car prior to me working on it, I think the crease has always been there, but its possible I made it worse by not disconnecting the fuel lines when I took off the carbs. See pic below. Could this cause it to not start?

I'm running out of ideas! :?

Cheers,

James
Attachments
lines.JPG and
Kink as it is now ...
prior.JPG and
Kink prior to me taking the carbs off - it was running OK at this point!
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sun Dec 02, 2007 7:00 am

James

....Now I'm wondering if the battery is not turning the engine over fast enough.....

If that is the case and your battery is suspect then I would think that the spark you can see will disappear when fitted and under compression

John :wink:
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PostPost by: jimbo » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:58 pm

Well, I boosted the battery with one of those portable power units. Ignition on - waited for the fuel pump to slow down, two pumps of the throttle and ... nothing! :(

It definitely turned over more quickly than on the battery alone, and there was a stronger smell of petrol, but there was not even the slightest flicker of it firing.

I can't see how I can have messed up the timing as all I've done is refit the carbs and pop the top of the distributor to get better access to the carbs. The distributor will only go on one way, plus the spark testers are blinking away like good'uns.

Baffled. :cry:

Perhaps I should try the RAC as I have homestart! :roll:

James

PS - topped the tank up with 20 litres of Shell V-power just in case the fuel guage was telling porkies, so it's got fresh petrol.
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PostPost by: jimbo » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:31 pm

Well the RAC man turned up and was equally baffled. As a last resort we cleaned the spark plugs (which were brand new less than 100 miles ago) and she fired first time. :roll:

I left her running for 5 minutes and she settled down to a nice idle so it doesn't look like my fat fingers have messed anything up... so far so good. But as soon as the engine got moderately warm coolant started pouring from just behind the front cross member. I checked the radiator and all the obvious pipes, but couldn't see anything. I suspect its coming from the block somewhere, but I need to get underneath to find out. That one will have to wait for another day. :(

Thus far Elan ownership has been a somewhat traumatic and shattering experience. They are supposed to be fun aren't they???? :?

I'm beginning to realise that my Caterham was 'plug and play' in comparison.

Oh, and the rev counter has stopped working as well!
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PostPost by: ppnelan » Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:46 pm

jimbo wrote:...coolant started pouring from just behind the front cross member. I checked the radiator and all the obvious pipes, but couldn't see anything. I suspect its coming from the block somewhere, but I need to get underneath to find out.
Check for a leak elsewhere first, BUT it could be coming out of the 'drain hole' for the water pump bearing. This may mean you need to 'do' the water pump... :cry:

:arrow: Matthew
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PostPost by: hatman » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:27 am

jimbo wrote:

Thus far Elan ownership has been a somewhat traumatic and shattering experience. They are supposed to be fun aren't they???? :?

I'm beginning to realise that my Caterham was 'plug and play' in comparison.

Oh, and the rev counter has stopped working as well!


This was a Paul Matty supplied car wasn't it? (and therefore not cheap!) Mmm - makes you think. :?
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