the +2S petrol smell....

[thor]

I've been into a thread about this before, but can't find it now.
The breather hoses that exit right in front of the rear wheels seem to be a generally known source of a strong petrol odour in and around many a +2, which my wife finds nauseating, and not the least bit charming. I use a cover not only in the winter lay-up, but in in the summer as well as I like a nice clean car..
Am I right in believing this to increase he problem, with the vapours coming up inside the cover? I've now put plugs in both the breather tubes, and hope the smell starts going AWAY and doesn't collect over the winter...

Question 1: will this work?
Question2: One of these two plugs have a tiny hole in the middle, is this enough to still allow some breathing, or am I by plugging the hoses F*ing up the system and will end up with the engine misfiring due to <petrol shortage caused by a system vacuum or suchlike??

[1964 S1]

A search of "petrol smells" provides many results.
From what I recall, your method sounds fine. I do think you'll still be trapping fumes under the car cover which could permeate into the carpet, interior, etc.
My stock '69 loses quite a bit of fuel due to evaporation. I don't detect the petrol odor but my sniffer doesn't ride, too loud and smells of exhaust.
God blesses men and women.

[Robbie693]

Thor,

I think this was the thread:

http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13102

Mine smells for a while when it's in the garage but, curiously, the smell dissipates after a week or so of not being run. It's not that it has all evaporated either!

Maybe it's just the vapour collecting in the breathers that takes a while to subside...

[Hamish Coutts]

Thor,

I go with 1964 S1. There have been many posts on this subject some of which I wrote myself, so a more detailed search will reveal results. There are many mods that will cure your problem.
Personally, I quite like the odd whiff of petrol but my wife (bless her cotton socks) also finds the smell sickening when in the car.

What you have done is fine for storage but I presume you will remove the plugs when the car is out of storage. Otherwise, when you try to fill the tank, it will take forever as you have blocked the breathers.

Regards,

Hamish.

[b-havers]

Otherwise, when you try to fill the tank, it will take forever as you have blocked the breathers.

I have plugged both the breathers, and yes; I do get a lot of strange looks when I climb under the car to unplug one of the breathers before filling petrol...

But; no fuel smell anymore

[thor]

Robbie, thanks for the link, this was the thread I was looking for.
The easiest advice, bar the fuel neck modification jobbie, seems to be corking both the hoses, and drilling a small diameter hole in one or two of the corks to allow sufficient breathing while still eliminating the smell.

Another source seems to be the felt under the tank, but without looking in the manual I seem to remember getting the tank out to do this is a B I G job.., you did it Hamish, is it?

[Hamish Coutts]

Thor,

A petrol smell coming from the felt under the tank is not very good news and I think the main cause of your problem. I had the same problem (which generated a particularly strong petrol smell). Petrol was seeping from a spot of corrosion on the bottom of the tank into the felt. I also had petrol seeping from where the breathers connected on both sides of the tank.
The tank is not too difficult to get out but the petrol pipe connection on the bottom of the tank is a bugger to get to and caused a lot of spanners to be thrown across the garage floor and skinned knuckles . The drain plug was rusted solid as well and completely useless.

I tried to repair the tank and succeeded in fixing the breathers but the repair mannie also succeeded in causing a lot of new corrosion and a lot of new problems (petrol pumps HATE rust particles with a vengence!!)

My eventual solution was to fit a new alloy tank (Paul Matty) with standard connections. (If you go this route get them to supply a new banjo bolt as well - my original one had a different thread).
I fitted the original breather pipe back onto the offside (this is a RHD car) connection on the tank and connected the nearside breather to the filler neck. There are no petrol smells in the car at all and only faint ones if the car has been in the garage for a few days. These go away by the time the car has been driven out of the garage. The tank also fills quickly.
I would do the alloy tank thing again without hesitation rather that go down the 'repair the original tank' route as in my experience, repairing a mild steel tank causes a lot more new problems. (I was on the verge of fitting zips to the tank straps because the tank had to come out so often)

On the fuel front, the only problem I have left to solve is a leaking fuel cap. Nothing I have tried has worked yet. Mmmm, now where's that Demon Tweeks catalogue?

Hamish.

[Hamish Coutts]

Thor,

I took the tank out through the interior of the car. For the life of me I couldn't get it out through the boot. As far a Lotus's go it isn't a difficult job but still a 'pig'. What I did was:

*empty the tank! (helps if you have an electric pump- if you don't, now's your chance to fit one!)
In the car:
* remove back shelf, rear seats and one of the front seats (doesn't matter which)
* disconnect the two breather pipes (helps to have some hot water to hand as heat softens the, by now, hard plastic pipes) (my neighbour offered me his gas powered hot air gun to do this job . Mmmm a Lotus space shuttle?) Hot water is also handy for soothing the skinned knuckles you will get in the step below
Under the car:
* jack the car up nice and high and with much swearing, skinned knuckles etc. undo the banjo bolt and remove the fuel line. (you will be amazed at how much crud is trapped there) It also helps here if you have double jointed wrists and fingers that have the clasping ability of vice grips!
In the boot:
* remove any boot lining forming the rear wall of the boot.
* disconnect the fuel guage
* remove the fastenings from the tank straps (mine were UNC threaded nuts that a 7/16 AF or 11mm spanner fitted (because of the long threads on the straps you need a deep socket)
* disconnect the filler neck from the tank. Mine had a large diameter hose clip securing it.
With a bit of huffing and puffing the tank should now come out through the car.

Do with it what you will. If you have corrosion problems I still say heave it. (it could make a nice plant container for your patio! )

I spoke to a guy that offered to coat the whole thing inside and out with some kind of sealer. think it was a kind of resin stuff but the cost was not much less than a shiny new alloy tank. I preferred the new tank route as it came with a new gauge sender unit as well.

Hope this helps,

Regards,

Hamish.

[thor]

Blimey, seems like a fairly big job, not doable for me until spring, as the garage it's in now I cannot do any work in...(my mom's underground car park space..)

Here's H O P I N G the smell will subside with the plugs now in place in the breathers, though my memory of a whiff of petrol upon opening the boot makes me suspect the felt also needing sorting out. "#%##?@@?

I think the best thing is next I'm with the car is to lift out the rear seat back, and check for smell behind there, if it's there I'll start saving up for that (horrifically expensive?) alloy tank.

[Hamish Coutts]

Thor,

It'll take a good day to remove/replace the tank. From memory the new alloy tank cost in the region of ?250. By all means start saving now. You never know, when you remove the tank to investigate and find it is only a minor problem, you can use the money to go away for a long Summer weekend in the Lotus now that all the nasty petrol smells have been removed!

There are a couple of other things at the bottom of the tank that can weep petrol apart from corrosion holes. One is the damned drain plug. (nearside floor of the tank. Get at it through the hole in the floor under the tank) I haven't seen one yet that is not rusted solid. Mine had a distinct smell of petrol. They can be pigs to remove but are repairable without having to weld/braze anything.

The other is the fuel banjo. This is not so prone to rusting but the red fiber washers can break down and start to weep. All this needs is a couple of new washers and the assocoated knuckle scraping.
It is also possible that the plastic fuel line is leaking slightly.

It's also worth checking the seal for the fuel guage sender on the back of the tank.

Realistically though, as our cars are of similar ages I still suspect corosion to be the culprit. Did any of the POs live by the seaside?
Try and get your hand/fingers between the lower sidewalls of the tank and the side bulkheads of the car. There is a seam there that can rust. This is where my problems ocurred. Do this when you have the seat back out or from the boot.
When you pull your hand back out and it smells of petrol (mine had a lead like smell as well) then I think you will need to use your savings for a new tank .

Let me know how you get on.

Regards,

Hamish.

[thor]

Thanks for excellent and detailed advice Hamish, I'll try to have a sniff around next week to focus in on what's going on in the tank region.

The PO (had the car for 26yrs until my purchase in 2005) was a very diligent engineer that lived far from the seaside in Warwickshire. And with the car having had very very little mileage after a chassis change in the late eighties/early nineties, I'm hoping he would have sorted out any problems, as the car is very solid and problem free (touch wood). The only thing to go wrong last years season was a worn out coil and dissappearing reversing lights...

What would be a good material to replace the felt with Hamish, should I come to that?

[Hamish Coutts]

OK Thor,

If the car had been in sea water while living in Warwickshire then global warming has advanced a tad further than you might think. Don't panic!!

However, soundproofing. I used a fireproof, soundproofing foam I got in 1m square sheets, from Woollies. It has a self adhesive backing. But when I reinstalled the repaired tank with yet another unknown leak and subsequently had to remove it AGAIN, I found that the petrol had started to disolve the adhesive that attached the foam to its backing. A bit of a mess to say the least.
None the less, I installed the new tank using the same stuff (anticipating no leaks this time - and 6 months later there are none, so it should be OK). Key thing was it is fireproof.
The old stuff was like old fashioned carpet underlay with a light coating of tarry material on each side. I set light to some of the old petrol smelly felt in the garden and it burned beautifully! Not the best thing to have under the fuel tank.

Have a look on Woollies site or give them a call. They are very helpful.

Regards,

Hamish.

[sparkey]

Hamish, regarding your leaking filler cap - I had to resolve this problem in a hurry recently on a track day (circuit managers don't like petrol spilling on thier pristine tarmac). I used a sponge inside a tesco's bag inside the filler neck. Surprising this has worked faultlessly ! The sponge expands to fill the neck and the bag keeps it from getting too soggy and decomposing with the petrol. That was in the spring and I'm still using it.

Disadvantages are that it looks a bit strange to pull a tesco's bag out of your petrol tank before filling up, and initially the print comes off on your hands due to the petrol, so try with a white bag !

Not the most scientific or elegant solutions I know, but it does work.

Steve.

[Hamish Coutts]

Thanks Steve. I'll have a look at that.

Hamish.