Lotus Elan

Installing and torquing crankshaft pulley

PostPost by: stugilmour » Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:45 am

Well, I got the crankshaft pulley off with the engine in place and the radiator removed. All good. Thanks for the tips in this earlier thread.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=53547

I now need to install the new pulley with the 36-1 teeth for a crank position sensor.. How do I go about this? Do I insert the key and somehow press the pulley on? I tried offering it up but it is hanging up on the key. How do I get it started? Is it expected to have to file the key a bit?

I have seen reference online to inserting a longer bolt with a nut on it into the crankshaft, and gradually tightening the nut to seat the pulley? Or the use of a longer bolt with a stack of washers to gradually tighten the bolt and seat the pulley?

Basically my problem is my air impact driver is not tightening up, and if I use a conventional socket wrench the engine is spinning as I don’t seem to have a reliable way to lock the engine or rear wheels with it in gear? The required torque is quite modest, like 24 to 28 ft lb, so should be some way to keep everything from turning. Thinking I should use Locktite medium perhaps? I suspect something was used originally as it was difficult to remove.

Any help appreciated. Real rookie at doing something like this, and mainly focused on not screwing something up.

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:03 am

As with when you raised it previously and some people said you needed a puller to remove the pulley and others said you didn't the key considerations are mechanical sympathy and common sense. If you feel a need to force things STOP AND THINK. I'd suggest you are at that point with this. Using an impact gun capable of up to 1200Nm of torque to try and force the pulley on is not exhibiting mechanical sympathy.

Best to take it apart again and compare new part versus old part to find out why there is a problem
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Feb 06, 2024 7:36 am

The key sits in both the chain sprocket and the crank pulley.a gentle tap on the front edge may seat it a little lower at the front enabling the pullet to go on. Make sure there are no burrs on the key or the new pulley and check the pulley bore versus the crank nose diameter as the pully should be a smooth hand push fit. never trust the dimensions of replacement parts to be accurate

With the engine in gear and the rear wheels on the ground you should be able to tighten the bolt to the required torque.

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PostPost by: 512BB » Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:04 am

After having checked for burrs, sizing etc., I would offer up the new pulley without the key in place to see what the fit is like. When satisfied, fit the key, making sure that it is properly seated, and with the front tip of the key fractionally lower than the back. That way, the key wont butt up against advancing pulley. And before final fitting of the key and pulley, put a smear of grease on the whole of the crank nose and inside the pulley. It will stop them bonding together with rust. Works for me.

Good luck.

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Feb 06, 2024 12:45 pm

It can be difficult locking the engine up by putting the transmission in gear because the dampening springs in the clutch plate will make the locking effect feel squishy rather than firm. It's easy though and well worth a try first. Another easy way to lock the engine is to remove the cam cover and poke something solid through the spokes in a camshaft drive gear and rotate the engine until that something solid contacts the head. I prefer to use a soft copper or brass rod rather than a screwdriver for the "something solid". You could try locking the flywheel via the ring gear with something solid also. You can access the ring gear by removing the inspection plate / cover or starter motor.

I use medium loctite on that bolt because I have known it to become loose despite being torqued to the correct figure.
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PostPost by: JonB » Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:07 pm

I wouldn't be applying torque through the cam chain if I were you.

Locking the flywheel is the better option.
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PostPost by: Donels » Tue Feb 06, 2024 6:38 pm

In addition to 512BB's advice try the key in the pulley. It should be a sliding fit.

Agree with JonB. That's a stupid idea.
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:00 pm

JonB wrote:I wouldn't be applying torque through the cam chain if I were you.

Locking the flywheel is the better option.


Locking at the cam has worked for me. 28Nm isn't a lot of torque but obviously if you are going to use more than that use some common sense. Fine to use a rattle gun to undo the bolt (in which case you won't need to lock anything) but certainly don't use it to tighten it up. Yes locking the flywheel is the best method but it is more difficult.
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:45 am

Thanks for the tips. Got it installed and torqued. Excellent point on the clutch springs making everything feel spongy.

After I oiled everything up and cleaned up the woodruff key I gave it another try. After finally getting the key properly positioned with ever so slightly sloping downward I was able to line up the key way on the first try! A dab of grease helps to retain the key in the pocket to get it positioned.

The torque wrench clicked just as the rear tires were slipping. Perfect. I think part of my problem is the garage floor can be pretty slippery.

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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:32 pm

2cams70 wrote:…Another easy way to lock the engine is to remove the cam cover and poke something solid through the spokes in a camshaft drive gear and rotate the engine until that something solid contacts the head...


Not much mechanical sympathy there, IMHO. Much better to jam the flywheel starter gear, as you also suggested.
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PostPost by: Phil.C60 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 6:19 pm

2cams70 wrote:
JonB wrote:I wouldn't be applying torque through the cam chain if I were you.

Locking the flywheel is the better option.


Locking at the cam has worked for me. 28Nm isn't a lot of torque but obviously if you are going to use more than that use some common sense. Fine to use a rattle gun to undo the bolt (in which case you won't need to lock anything) but certainly don't use it to tighten it up. Yes locking the flywheel is the best method but it is more difficult.[/quote
It may have worked for you, but it's just the wrong thing to do for so many reasons. If you are going to the extent of fitting crank triggered programmed ignition/full engine management, removing either the lower dirt plate or the starter to lock the engine properly while torquing up the crank bolt is not that big a deal.
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PostPost by: berni29 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 7:52 pm

Hi

What was the crank position sensor/wheel combo that you bought? Also I am curious about what ECU you will use. I am planning to do something similar once my Zetec car is running......

All the best

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Feb 08, 2024 3:16 am

Phil.C60 wrote:It may have worked for you, but it's just the wrong thing to do for so many reasons. If you are going to the extent of fitting crank triggered programmed ignition/full engine management, removing either the lower dirt plate or the starter to lock the engine properly while torqueing up the crank bolt is not that big a deal.


"works for me" is the key word here "works for you" can be something entirely different. It's still a democracy hopefully. To me fitting things like CV joints when the vehicle wasn't originally designed for them, aluminium flywheels, stainless steel brake pistons etc. could be wrong for quite a few reasons. The facts are however that people have fitted these things and it's worked for them so that's what is important. It's not me who is driving your car after all.

With something like this at least if you break something it will be immediately obvious where as with some other things it may only happen after a considerable period of use and fatigue cycles.

I'll say one thing though. You must be a very lucky guy to have a partner who is willing to crawl under your car and lock the flywheel with a screwdriver whilst you muck around with the crankshaft pulley bolt (assuming you haven't made a special fixture to do the job). Be sure to give your partner something special for Valentine's Day! - maybe one of those made up tools.
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PostPost by: Phil.C60 » Thu Feb 08, 2024 7:21 am

I am a very lucky guy. I have a group of friends who all have various old cars. One guy has two type 14 Elites, one guy has a Clan Crusader, a 1967 Mini, a pre war MG and a nicely rebuilt mint TR6. Another has a Chevette historic rally car and a TVR Griffith.. Yet another has two eighties 911s. I'm the poor relation with just an Elan....and we help one another out whenever necessary. My wife has no interest in cars apart from trips out on the sunshine: she won't be under the car any time soon. She'll still get something nice for Valentine's Day though as unlike some guys partners she doesn't mind what I spend on the car!
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:01 pm

Phil.C60 wrote:I am a very lucky guy. I have a group of friends who all have various old cars. One guy has two type 14 Elites, one guy has a Clan Crusader, a 1967 Mini, a pre war MG and a nicely rebuilt mint TR6. Another has a Chevette historic rally car and a TVR Griffith.. Yet another has two eighties 911s. I'm the poor relation with just an Elan....and we help one another out whenever necessary. My wife has no interest in cars apart from trips out on the sunshine: she won't be under the car any time soon. She'll still get something nice for Valentine's Day though as unlike some guys partners she doesn't mind what I spend on the car!


I wouldn't say you were the poor relation just because you have an Elan because anything Lotus of course speaks of innovative engineering and racing pedigree.

As for women my test used to be to keep an engine block strategically placed in the lounge room as a trip hazard. When the target candidate stumbled over the engine block the outcomes arising from the incident provided useful material to assess whether the relationship was going to be of a long term nature or not. I guess this is another example of something that worked for me that may not work for you. But who cares. It's a democracy.
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