Head gasket blown or just condensation buildup?

[monkeyodeath]

Hi all, and apologies in advance if this is a bit of an elemental question, but...

Finally getting my S3 back on the road after a couple years of being more or less out of the country. It's been sitting in my garage for about 2 years.

Engine ran again without much coaxing, which is good, but when I was changing the oil before actually driving it, I noticed quite a bit of milkshake/water in the oil, at the top of the oil filter, and on the dipstick.

Not sure whether I should consider the head gasket blown and start to fixing it or whether it's normal for that amount of water/condensation to build up in the sump over the years. Thoughts? I don't want to overreact but also would like to avoid doing any engine damage by driving it around.

[h20hamelan]

moisture in the atmosphere?
why change oil/coolant before parking?

[monkeyodeath]

Hopefully it's just moisture...

I didn't change the coolant or oil before parking, sorry if that wasn't clear. The oil that was in the engine before I parked it was very fresh.

I got the engine to crank and run for 30 seconds but wanted to change the oil again before I ran it for longer and before I actually took the car on the road. That's when I noticed all the moisture.

[2cams70]

In my opinion it’s actually more important to drain the coolant during long term storage than worrying about having fresh oil in the engine. The moisture you have in the engine could be from various internal leak sources not just the head gasket. For example if you have an internal leak around the water pump impeller backing ring it will cause symptoms like this where engine operation is unaffected but you have an internal leak. If it were me I’d just run the car and monitor very carefully and frequently temperature, oil pressure and dipstick oil level and see that it doesn’t rise. You have a low risk in causing serious harm provided you drive gently, monitor carefully and stop if you notice further trouble

[ericbushby]

To start with it is not normal, there is a problem there.
Somewhere you have a water leak into the engine.
I agree with 2cams that it is OK to run the engine and drive it a little way. I had a similar fault which produced clouds of white smoke. (water vapour). Check that the small drain hole under the water pump pulley is clear. Mine had been painted over.
If it is condensation then the water will evaporate but I don`t think it is from your description.
Mine was leaking from the rear of the water pump into the sump which required engine out and a new pump.
Tell us how you get on.
Eric in Burnley
1967 S3SE DHC

[jono]

Try a pressure test on the coolant system.

I had these symptoms on a freshly built engine ('professionaly' built) and a pressure test revealed a tiny jet of water from the flange around the waterpump where some idiot had pried it apart with a screwdriver or similar. The engine builder should obviously have noticed that before putting it together.

[Lotus54]

Fresh oil when storing is a good idea- contaminates in used oil can be pretty corrosive.

I agree on the pressure test. See if it will hold pressure well or if it drops. If holding, then probably ok, but I would change oil, then do it again before too long. Oil is a lot cheaper than engine overhauls.

[Mike Ostrov]

Yes, a pressure test is definitly indicated. I do this for all our Type 14 alloy Coventry Climax engines, before assembly. OK, cold, but best at operating temperature. We have had more recent galvanic corrosion issues after extended periods of rest in the Lady Climax.

[2cams70]

Fresh oil when storing is a good idea- contaminates in used oil can be pretty corrosive.

I agree on the pressure test. See if it will hold pressure well or if it drops. If holding, then probably ok, but I would change oil, then do it again before too long. Oil is a lot cheaper than engine overhauls.

I’ve pulled down many engines that have been standing with old oil in them for decades. Internal corrosion due to old oil is never a problem. Corrosion is usually due to external oil entry through the intake manifold etc. By all means change your oil before you store the car if you wish to it won’t do any harm but I’d suggest this is yet another one of those old wives tales that’s been circulating for years and so everyone believes it - and yet they neglect to drain the coolant. May have had some relevance in the 1920’s when oil didn’t have much in the way of additive packages but things have moved on - at least the practical reality suggests so.

[h20hamelan]

So is there not more acid and hydrocarbons stored in conventional, & to a lesser degree synthetic, engine oil, from poor quality fuel?
I thought this was a concern.

[rgh0]

I have also dismantled many old engines and i always find signficant corrossion in the bottom of the sump where water separates from the oil and sludge collects overtime. I have also stored my Lotus for periods of years while working overseas and always left them with fresh coolant and never had any signficant corrossion issues, Maybe I was just lucky.

just my opinon for what its worth

cheers
Rohan

[StressCraxx]

Modern engine oils have dispersant chemistry in the additive package that allows the moisture to be picked up by the dispersant chemical and mixed with the oil, hence the milky appearance. That way the oil pickup in the sump doesn't pick up a slug of water and cause the oil pump or the bearing to gall and seize.

[2cams70]

Thanks Rohan. I knew you’d chime in and disagree. I spent many years of my misspent youth extracting engines from old derelict cars and typically you’ll find the contents of the sump exactly as the engine was when it was last used provided water has not entered from external sources or from internal sources as has happened here. Usually that means filthy black oil, sludge in the bottom of the sump but no evidence of water or bearing corrosion - i.e exactly as things were many years ago when the engine was last shut down. Pull any high mileage engine down that’s been in recent service and you will typically see the same thing. The contents of the cooling system on the other hand on and engine left standing for years, well …….
If the poster had drained the coolant prior to storage he would now not have coolant in his oil and the engine would not have been sitting for years with coolant in the oil. Unlike brake fluid engine oil is not hydroscopic!

By all means change your oil before you put your car into storage it won’t do any harm but it’s certainly not something I’d be losing too much sleep about personally speaking.

[rgh0]

thanks for your reply I knew you could not resist having the last word.

Just a question.... how many old for kent blocks do you have since you have pulled down so many in your youth and know so much about lubrication technology both in the past and know?

[2cams70]

Whilst we are on the subject I just remembered that I do have an old 120E 1500 Cortina block lying around under my carport that has a slightly leaky roof. I pulled this engine out of an old very rusty Cortina that was lying around in an open field. Last rego. date was 1984 and I think I got it around 2015 - so at least 31 years standing around with old oil in the sump. I remember the 2 middle pistons were seized solid and even after copious amounts of penetrating fluid and time soaking they refused to budge. The engine had been sitting around without the air cleaner attached and water had entered the engine through the intake and two open inlet valves. In a fit of rage the prehistoric part of the brain took over and I stupidly tried to bash them with a hammer to get them to move (I'm sure at some stage we've all been there done that). The upshot of this is that in one of my strikes I missed the top of the piston and hit the deck face instead and put a ding in it. Pissed off with myself for not having thought things through properly and tried other more subtle methods (eg. heat, cutting the top of the piston around the gudgeon pin boss with a Dremel, etc.) it has been sitting in an open state under my carport not touched ever since.

If people are interested I can remove a few bearing caps to see whether there is any corrosion due to old oil and also clean out the sump for a better look. Note it has been sitting in damp conditions for 9 years now so there is a bit of surface rust in a few area that weren't there when I first took it apart. In fact when I first took it apart I recall it being cleaner than expected internally with not much sludge in the sump. The oil in the sump was black but free flowing without any sign of coagulation or gumminess.

Let me know if you would like me to proceed further and remove a few bearing caps for a bit of a look see. I didn't go that far originally after my extreme frustration trying to get the pistons to move. I have plenty of other projects on the go not just car related so I won't bother unless there is interest. Rohan you are free to take this block off my hands if you want it as I have no use for it and way too much shit lying around. It's at 0.040" oversize and apart from the slight ding on the deck face appears to be OK. Some pictures attached.

PS. For some reason the system is not allowing me to upload pictures at the moment. There's no nudity involved so I'm not sure what the problem is. Will try again later.