Engine swap????

[nomad]

I realize it is likely considered heresy to suggest but am wondering about doing a Zetec swap. Is there a definitive guide or specialist offerings for such a swap? I know of a low miles engine for very reasonable money and the last twin cam I did was quite a pricey undertaking. I'm sure now it would be no cheaper.

Wouldn't want to do the swap if butchery is involved but I am capable of all types of welding, and small machining to make it work.

Kurt

[nomad]

I failed to mention that this would be into a S1 Elan and the old engine would be stand by for the next owner.

Kurt
26/3754

[h20hamelan]

Most go for the black-top late 99 on engine.
I believe it is fairly simple as far as swaps go, no need for adaptor plates (now is the time to install a Tremec T5 the Camero S10 etc is long tail-shaft, Mustang etc short. There are also many 1st gear ratios, but most share the remains. The best thing about the T5 is the offerings for gears and support)

Some have put the 03-07 Duratec (route for me) as it is likely one of the best engines ever made. Caterham has been using it since its debut in 2003. Free reving because of the windage tray in sump, and short stroke.

Motorcycle carbs is the way to go, but there are some Fi

[Spyder fan]

Kurt,
I have sent you a PM with a link to an article by Practical classics that I can't post in the clear due to copyright. It's a Word file that lists the main items you will need to convert along with pictures.

Basically Escort sump
1800 flywheel
water rail (raceline, dunnell, retro-ford)
thermostat housing
spigot bearing for the clutch

[prezoom]

Doing a US based conversion is a bit harder than if one was across the pond. For starters, most likely you would be starting with the 2L version. Most were automatics ,as was mine, so I used a flywheel from Fidenza. The clutch and pressure plate were standard Ford Contour. I removed the original ring gear and replaced with a 110 tooth version available from the usual subjects. This however required some modifications to the flywheel. First challenge is the engines are transverse units, thus the flywheel is closer to the engine block than than the twin cam. I kept the
TC transmission. I retained the twin cam starter, high torque unit, so to get the correct spacing, I made a new thicker adapter to replace the adapter that comes with the high torque starters. The inner diameter of the 110 tooth ring gear is smaller than the 135 tooth one I removed. I removed enough material from the gear mating surface to match the diameter of the standard TC steel flywheel, also moving the new ring gear rearward as much as I could to gain space for starter pinion gear. The Zetec block is missing one bolt location to otherwise match the TC bell housing. The missing one is of course one the top starter retention bolt. To help retain the starter, I made a new engine plate, one piece, from some 4130 sheet stock to accommodate the top bolt. The 2 top bell housing bolts were changed from metric to imperial 3/8-16 to match the other mounting bolts.

The engines are front sump, however the sump is very deep and needs to be shortened. The US blacktop version is a two part unit, The upper section is a girdle that incorporates a windage tray, the bottom is steel. The silver top version is a single cast aluminum part. To get adequate oil volume after shortening, wings need to be added to the pan. A gated area around the oil pickup is almost required. Both pans offer their own challenges. Steel section oil pans are available from Tasca Ford. My intake manifold and exhaust manifold flange were sourced from Dunnell Engineering in England. Both were bargains in my opinion. I used 45mm Webers for carburation. The Dunnell intake spaces the carbs closer together than the Weber head TC. So the Weber back plate for the air box wouldn't work directly. I modified the back plate to accommodate the new spacing, but was able to use the standard outer cover. I made my own exhaust system from the flange to the Y piece. It is a single unit, routing the 4 tubes in front of the engine mount, and can be removed easily. The alternator was relocated to the intake side. The 4-2-1 assembly now fits higher than the original system. This was accomplished by removing the clutch slave cylinder and the mounting ring and using a Contour concentric slave. The bleed line from the new slace is routed up between the two master cylinders so the slave becomes self bleeding to the fluid level in the master cylinder.

I skipped the serpentine belt, making my own front pulley. A reverse rotation water pump impeller was purchased from the Quicksilver race shop here in the US. I also made my own water pump pulley. I used an Electromotive lost spark ignition, that was a leftover spare from my racing days. It is decidedly yestertech, no computer required to set ignition timing, just set what you want with adjustable pots on the ignition unit, which also contains the ability to dial back advance at high rpm. The trigger wheel is mounted on the back of the crank pulley.

I made my own water return/thermostat housing from the back of the head to the radiator. I wanted to get the water return line and the thermostat away from being directly above the exhaust, I also wanted to retain the dual action of the thermostat for quicker warm up, and also incorporate a water to oil heat exchanger between the engine block and the oil filter. Used one of the standard Ford heat exchangers and a 90 degree adapter to make the oil filter attach in a vertical position. The adapter is a Ford Mustang unit available from Summit Racing.

Radiator is a DYI unit from Wizard Cooling, and sized for our desert living. It's huge, and entertaining to watch the temp gauge occasionally move when the thermostat opens when the warm up bypass will no longer pass enough water to keep the engine in the 190 degree operating range.

Bud English also is doing a Zetec conversion, using a silver top. I'm sure he will chime in on his experience working out his issues.

[nomad]

Thank you both. These engines aren't new so I imagine there is plenty of stuff out there on swapping them into all kinds of things. Looking at low cost so probably keep the four speed. Just day dreaming for now.

Kurt

[berni29]

Hi

Wow, I wish I could fabricate like some of you guys!

I an Ztec'ing a Plus 2 at the moment. Apart from the options mentioned above the 1.8 Zetec flywheel is often used here in the UK. There are some reasonable aftermarket sumps also available. Be careful with the steel ones because I am told that they are not really stiff enough to make up for the removal of the aluminium windage assembly so can leak very quickly with use.

Also I will be using the original ECU and engine sensors (but not manifolds) for the fuel injection. I don't see the point of reinventing the wheel for this one.

All the best

Berni

[nomad]

Nor quite as simple as swaps in the rear drive era but looks like plenty of folks to get ideas from. Rob, especially appreciate your complete description. For now I have plenty of other things to take care of but the worn twin cam can likely be put on stand by.

Kurt

[nomad]

Berni, not sure we got the 1.8 version over here? Worth considering if we did or can find one.

Kurt

[alaric]

Hi all. I've been wondering about conversion to a zetec too. I already have the Spyder chassis. Is the UK DVLA likely to be concerned? I am not clear whether or not it needs to be declared etc.

Thanks.

Sean.

[andyelan]

Hi Everyone
I only know about the situation in the UK but there's a story in this months Classic Cars magazine about a guy who's had a 1960's Mini converted to electric drive and now can't get it road registration. The DVLA have stated that because of holes drilled in the boot floor to secure the batteries the car is now considered to be a "radically altered vehicle" and so requires to pass an IVA test, something almost impossible to achieve with a car of this age.

The rules on what is and is not acceptable can be found at www.gov.uk/vehicle-registration. It's my understanding that if you simply change the engine there's no problem, however, if you change engine and gearbox and have a Spyder chassis with different diff, steering rack, brakes etc then there could be problems.

It seems to me that the main points are as follows:-
1) If you change the engine do you need to inform the DVLA? - Answer, definitely yes.
2) If you don't tell the DVLA are they going to find out? - Answer, probably not.
3) Insurance companies must be informed of any changes - They'll love to find an excuse to avoid paying out in the event of a claim
4) If you don't tell the insurance company are they going to find out? - Answer, probably not.
5) How much of a risk is it worth taking - The guy with the Mini spent £30,000 on the conversion and has been left with a car that cant be used

Anyhow, it's just my thoughts
Regards
Andy

[alaric]

Hi. Thanks Andy. I read about that case on here too i think. Thats why I was worried. I can sort of understand why a radical change like conversion to electric needs to be regulated. Having seen what previous owners do to elan wiring haha. But in the case of the mini they wouldn't let him revert to original either would they. Ridiculous. Hopefully it'll get resolved. I signed a petition that was raised from that case.

Sean.

[berni29]

Hi

As far as the DVLA historic status is concerned they say the following:

Engine – alternative cubic capacities of the same basic engine and alternative
original equipment engines are not considered a substantial change.

Changes that are made to preserve a vehicle, which in all cases must be when
original type parts are no longer reasonably available;

I guess no one has argued yet that the early Zetec engines are the same basic engine as the original TwinCam. If you have had both out in bits in front of you they are very similar indeed. The key difference is the belt vs chain mechanisms. You are also allowed to make changes to improve safety, emissions and fuel economy performance.

The whole thing is a mess. Personally I will notify the DVLA of the changes that I understand as being notifiable.

From an insurance standpoint I will tell them everything. Every detail. For the most part they do not care. They just like to know.

All the best

Berni

[andyelan]

Hi there

I think the rules about modifying vehicles have always been quite clear it's just that in the past the authorities were fairly easy going in how they were applied. Today things are different. The DVLA might feel that if a modified car were allowed on the road without proper paperwork and was then involved in an accident where someone were to be injured of killed, then they might be at risk of a claims for damages against them. There's also the possibility that the DVLA might not want a car that they consider not to be genuine "historic vehicle" to avoid being subject to road tax or city congestion charges.

The problem is that if a modified car comes to the attention to an official who just happened to have woken up feeling particularly grumpy that day, then one could suddenly find oneself with a whole load of trouble.

Andy

[Bud English]

Bud English also is doing a Zetec conversion, using a silver top. I'm sure he will chime in on his experience working out his issues.

Rob covered it all quite well. The difference between making it happen here as opposed to doing it in the UK comes down to how much you're willing to spend on component transportation and what you can fabricate yourself.

I started out with a new 2.0 Black top crate engine from Ford Racing by way of a kit car company that was moving on other things and liquidating them. I, too, built my own headers, water rail, and concentric slave cylinder adapter. Rob went with Webers and I chose FI from a Honda CBR1000 bike with a homebuilt manifold and a megasquirt unit. We both used the Fidenza flywheels modified in the same way. I stayed with the original water pump and serpentine belt system by adding an idler pully on the exhaust side. I opted for a VW Polo radiator (inexpensive) mounted upside down, placing the inlet and outlet on the left side of the car.

The big difference between Rob's car and mine is that he's been driving his and having a blast. Mine is still in the garage slowly getting done as my ambition ebbs and flows.