Sump removal, engine in car

PostPost by: nwbaxter66 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:43 pm

Federal plus 2. Weber head

Pulled the crank pulley to replace with a 36-1 cogged wheel

Woodruff key has vanished!

In an abundance of caution I figure I probably should pull the sump to check it hasn’t ended up in there — is that even a possibility?

Assuming I need to pull it, can it be done with engine in car?

Thanks

N
Nick Baxter
1970 Plus 2S (Federal)
1969 Plus 2 (UK) - sold
nwbaxter66
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 179
Joined: 03 Aug 2006

PostPost by: EPC 394J » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:48 pm

I believe it depends what chassis you have and whether the crossmember is removable?
Where, then, lies the answer? In choice. Which shall it be: bankruptcy of purse or bankruptcy of life?

Plus 2S

BLL 315H in white.
EPC 394J
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 235
Joined: 07 Feb 2014

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 1:20 am

The woodruff key actually extends further and into the oil deflector and timing chain sprocket behind so there's actually no way it should fall out just by removing the pulley. It may have sheared off. I'd be investigating further with an inspection light to see what lies behind the pulley.

I'm not sure why you wish to replace the standard pulley with something else by the way. Unless you need a crank trigger for fuel injection (waste of time if it's just ignition you are thinking about) there really is no need.
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2022 Ford Fiesta ST.
2cams70
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2046
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

PostPost by: nwbaxter66 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:40 am

Thx
Needed a crank pulley with ring for efi crank sensor
(:
Nick Baxter
1970 Plus 2S (Federal)
1969 Plus 2 (UK) - sold
nwbaxter66
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 179
Joined: 03 Aug 2006

PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:34 am

EPC 394J wrote:I believe it depends what chassis you have and whether the crossmember is removable?

It's a +2 so member is removable :wink: :wink:
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3680
Joined: 06 Dec 2008

PostPost by: Hawksfield » Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:29 am

I am pretty sure the key cannot go into the sump as the oil deflector plate closes off the rear of the pulley and is tight up to it. If it was pushed out when fitting the pulley the pulley would not go fully home. I suggest that it was left out somehow. As suggested an inspection is required.
It is possible that it has been running without a key.
On reflection the key is trapped in with the crank sprocket so if it was present when the chain case was installed it would not move at all when the pulley was fitted, the inspection is imperative


Good luck
Last edited by Hawksfield on Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
John

+2s130 1971
User avatar
Hawksfield
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 600
Joined: 14 Jul 2004

PostPost by: alan.barker » Sat Nov 27, 2021 11:53 am

If there was no Key, how did you do Ignition Timing in the past.
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3680
Joined: 06 Dec 2008

PostPost by: RichardHawkins » Sat Nov 27, 2021 7:44 pm

Nick,

It’s been awhile since I’ve fitted one of these pulleys, but I think I remember that as you install the pulleys you need to apply inward pressure whilst also rotating the pulley and you will feel pulley engage with the key. If this is correct you will feel if the key is present.

Hope this helps,

Richard Hawkins
RichardHawkins
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1205
Joined: 05 Jul 2008

PostPost by: nwbaxter66 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:19 pm

The key was in the pulley before I pulled the Pulley off.
So Its a question of looking closely all around before I pull the sump.
Thanks
Nick Baxter
1970 Plus 2S (Federal)
1969 Plus 2 (UK) - sold
nwbaxter66
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 179
Joined: 03 Aug 2006

PostPost by: Chrispy » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:44 pm

Back to the original question, yes you can remove and replace the sump in a Plus 2 with engine ine. It's a pretty miserable job on jackstands. Use a hoist if you can.
Chris
Elan +2 #0245
Exige S2 Supercharged
Chrispy
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 331
Joined: 29 Oct 2017

PostPost by: nwbaxter66 » Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:56 pm

Thanks much
Nick Baxter
1970 Plus 2S (Federal)
1969 Plus 2 (UK) - sold
nwbaxter66
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 179
Joined: 03 Aug 2006

PostPost by: Billmack » Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:09 am

I really dont think its possible for the key to fall inside. Get a good bright light and look more but I dont think its possible. Use a seal puller ti get the front seal out to look behind it . i think the key is bigger than the space between the cover and the slinger inside the cover.
Billmack
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 311
Joined: 30 Sep 2017

PostPost by: nwbaxter66 » Mon Nov 29, 2021 1:17 am

Thanks much.
Busy day so didn’t get to it yet (:
Nick Baxter
1970 Plus 2S (Federal)
1969 Plus 2 (UK) - sold
nwbaxter66
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 179
Joined: 03 Aug 2006

PostPost by: Peter +2 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:05 am

I have replaced +2 sump in situ on a standard Lotus chassis car. It’s a real pain but doable. To help I used some studs and longer bolts to line up and hold the sump in place. Once in place, the studs and long bolts were removed and correct ones inserted, The big difficulty I recall was getting the lip seals to stay in place. Someone on here recommended aviation type gasket sealant which is tacky enough to hold them in place, but very very tricky from underneath.

I would make every effort to find the missing key so to avoid doing this job.
1968 +2 BRM
Peter +2
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 283
Joined: 26 May 2010

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:47 am

Drain the oil and it may come out, IF, it made that far. Then, with a borescope, look around inside.
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
45/7286 S3 SE DHC
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3482
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: david.g.chapman and 23 guests