Lotus Elan

Horrible engine noise

PostPost by: ChriS7ven » Mon Dec 28, 2020 12:59 pm

Hello, after one of my first run with my Elan +2 for Christmas. My engine started to make a horrible rubbing noise that came gradually and louder and then the car stopped.... "Merry Christmas" :shock:

Today I took off the rocker cover to look at the timing chain which seems to be in good condition, with the correct tension.
However, the chain seems to be too close to the engine block and it rubs the block at the cylinder head junction.
Here are some pictures. When do you think?
An idea of the problem?

Please don't give me too serious news because I just got my car back after two years of litigation with my insurance company which broke the car on the assistance truck ... :oops:

IMG_9357 copie.jpg and

IMG_9360.jpg and
ChriS7ven
New-tral
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2020
Location: Var (83) - France

PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:23 pm

Hi Chris,
are you in Club Lotus France. Do you do the work yourself on the Engine or not.
If not then i suggest you join Club Lotus France and see if someone in the Club lives in your region.
The Club Lotus France have some nice people ready to help.
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: nmauduit » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:33 pm

sorry to read that : at first glance it seems that the chain started to eat alloy then got jammed, after that the chain tensioner got loose... I would not chance fixing that with the engine in the car, so this won't be cheap if you get it done. Circumstances would also impact the fix (how long was it run making noise, with increasing chances of metal particles traveling into the engine...), what happened when it got jammed (if while idling statically of at full throttle on the road could induce very different outcome)...
S4SE 36/8198
User avatar
nmauduit
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1694
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: HCA » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:16 pm

Something has given I am afraid.

Where in the Var are you? I quite fancy a few days break and considered Aix the other day - are you nearby?
HCA
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 471
Joined: 03 Jan 2020
Location: Limoux, France

PostPost by: Robbie693 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:29 am

Difficult to tell in the pics but is it not that the chain has caught the head to timing case cork gasket? As for why I couldn't say but maybe something is out of alignment. The wear marks on the chain look uneven though...

Robbie
User avatar
Robbie693
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1625
Joined: 08 Oct 2003
Location: UK

PostPost by: vstibbard » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:57 am

I've not read all replies but my guess would be the spacer between the jackshaft and gear is missing !! I'm not sure but there is a possibility the crankshaft gear maybe incorrect as it has more offset of TC than std ford pre/crossflow part.

I've not got a manual handy, maybe someone could post relevant image.

V
vstibbard
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 741
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:47 am

You haven't provided enough information to draw any conclusions. It's normal for the chain to run close to the head in that location. Is it possible to turn the engine over by hand with spanner on the crankshaft pulley bolt?
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:31 am

I would not turn it over.
Engine needs to be removed and dismantled. Don't risk more damage.
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 6:42 am

The chain is located fore / aft by the position of the cam sprockets and the crank sprocket.

The cam sprockets in the head position is fixed by the thrust collar in each cam and the slot in the head. If these have worn or the cam sprockets come loose then the chain could move forward and hit the front cover.

The crank sprocket position is fixed by the crank and it could have moved on the crank if the front pulley is loose or the crank could have moved forward if the rear thrust bearing that takes the clutch throw out loads on the crank centre main bearing has failed.

As suggested by others I would remove the spark plugs and see if I could turn the engine slowly by hand and try to observe what is not working. After that its just a question how much dismantling to investigate, identify and correct the problem will be required

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7860
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:06 am

alan.barker wrote:I would not turn it over.
Engine needs to be removed and dismantled. Don't risk more damage.
Alan


If the engine made a noise and then just stopped you won't do any further damage attempting to turn it over by hand. The inertia of the spinning mass of parts in the engine plus the flywheel and clutch suddenly being stopped by some kind of mechanical obstruction will have caused far more damage than you could ever do trying to turn it over by hand! Use some common sense though. If the engine is firmly locked and won't rotate do not try and force things. Attempt to rock the crankshaft both clockwise and anticlockwise and observe what happens
Last edited by 2cams70 on Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Dec 29, 2020 8:19 am

I would at least remove the Head.
So no contact Pistons Valves can happen.
One Hour work and Head will be off.
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: ChriS7ven » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:22 am

Hello everyone and thank you for your quick answers.

So I removed the spark plugs and turned the engine slowly by hand.
And now I wonder if it's really the chain?
The noise seems to come more from the middle of the engine and the coolant is going up on the cylinder head...
Could a simple cylinder head gasket make so much noise?

The car did not heat up, and to answer the questions:

I must have driven about a kilometre before the engine stalled. At that point the engine wouldn't start.
When I came back with another car to tow the Lotus, the engine had to be restarted, but I stopped the engine immediately because of the noise.

To answer HCA, I'm near Fayence, it's about 2 hours from Aix.
ChriS7ven
New-tral
 
Posts: 13
Joined: 22 Sep 2020
Location: Var (83) - France

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:50 am

Did you try rocking the crankshaft left and right? If you find there's a significant "dead zone" between turning clockwise and anticlockwise where you feel there's little resistance it's possible you have a broken crankshaft. It's possible the flywheel has detached itself too. Remove the bellhousing lower inspection cover and take a look at what the flywheel is doing whilst rotating the engine. Put a rod down each spark plug hole until it contacts the piston and see that each piston is going up and down as it should. Do a compression test. A valve seat could have dropped out of the head and a compression test will reveal this.

Through a process of elimination you will identify the cause
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Dec 29, 2020 1:20 pm

Soo many possible problems and without Head removed difficult to say.
Once the Head is off you should get a clear picture. If Head is good after removing then you move on to removing the rest of the Engine.
If you don't mind me asking but do the have the habit to work on "Twinks". If not get someone in the Club to have a look who is used to working on them.
Do you have a Workshop Manuel.
Good luck
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2715
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Dec 29, 2020 2:17 pm

It's not necessary to remove the head at this early stage of identifying the cause.
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1152
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: c.garde and 10 guests