Lotus Elan

Engine identification question

PostPost by: Chris-72sprint » Sun May 10, 2020 7:07 pm

I have read lots of threads on engine numbers so I decided to check my car today.
According to my log book my car has SPY0nnn as chassis number and N269nn for engine number.
When I checked my car today the chassis number is correct - the chassis was changed in April 1983.
The engine number is different to the log book - the car history shows it had a “complete recon engine” in October 1982.
Can anyone shed any light on this engine number that I found under the painted block?
Many thanks
Chris
Attachments
E236AE37-1448-40A2-A565-ADD1D40C8998.jpeg and
Chris-72sprint
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Apr 2020
Location: Suffolk

PostPost by: mikealdren » Mon May 11, 2020 7:56 am

The chassis number doesn't relate to the actual physical chassis so a new chassis shouldn't change the VIN plate. Looks like someone gave the DVLA a Spyder number, that is stamped on the chassis. Did they also insist on a 'Q' plate?
mikealdren
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1029
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Location: Surrey England

PostPost by: Chris-72sprint » Mon May 11, 2020 8:01 am

No fortunately - it’s still got it’s XRA765L plate but I agree this was not a good move.
I may try and get body number back on logbook
The engine number confuses me
Chris-72sprint
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Apr 2020
Location: Suffolk

PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon May 11, 2020 8:12 am

The log book engine number does not appear to relate to a standard Lotus number but your current engine number stamping does., so it looks if a Lotus block was used for the rebuild whne previously it may not have had a Lotus block from a previous rebuild. If that's an Elan or Plus 2 engine number others here can tell you where it came from mainly except for gaps in the records if its an ex Cortina or Escort engine or one of many racing blocks I dont think they have those records

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7512
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: trw99 » Mon May 11, 2020 9:26 am

Chris, the engine number on the block appears to be LP8880. Engine numbers in this sequence were being fitted to cars in late 1967. It does not correspond to an Elan in my records.

However the number appears to have been scratched in, whereas Lotus punched in the numbers on the block, so I would view the number with a degree of scepticism at this stage.

The Engine No on your document is much more likely to be the correct one for your 1972 Sprint, as it corresponds with others of the same time.

Regarding the chassis number. Although that may be the nomenclature on the log book, the correct and unique identifier for your car is the Unit No, the last four figures of the full VIN plus the letter E in your case, denoting a FHC.

Tim
User avatar
trw99
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2834
Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Location: Essex/Herts border, UK

PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon May 11, 2020 10:01 am

trw99 wrote:Chris, the engine number on the block appears to be LP8880. Engine numbers in this sequence were being fitted to cars in late 1967. It does not correspond to an Elan in my records.

However the number appears to have been scratched in, whereas Lotus punched in the numbers on the block, so I would view the number with a degree of scepticism at this stage.

The Engine No on your document is much more likely to be the correct one for your 1972 Sprint, as it corresponds with others of the same time.

Regarding the chassis number. Although that may be the nomenclature on the log book, the correct and unique identifier for your car is the Unit No, the last four figures of the full VIN plus the letter E in your case, denoting a FHC.

Tim



Hi Tim
I have seen engines with scribed engine numbers rather than stamped that appear to otherwise be original Lotus blocks so maybe Lotus lost their stamps for a period.

Ford blocks, at least the 120E ones I have seen here in Australia tended to have a number stamped on the boss ledge above the oil pressure sensing tapping but some also have a number scribed in the boss above the engine mount that may be a little different from the stamped one on the pressure tapping boss ledge. Maybe Ford had some scribed identification during production and then stamped a final number when it was mated to a car and at times at least this scribed identification was also used for the Lotus number on blocks destined for Lotus. Impossible to know and it's a pity no one from the Ford engine line at this time appears to be around to understand better Fords production practices in general and for blocks destined for Lotus in particular. It would also be nice to know whether Lotus or Ford ground off the casting numbers on the earlier blocks in the 66 to 69 time frame approximately and why

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7512
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon May 11, 2020 10:17 am

What number is stamped on the back end of the head facing the bulkhead :?:
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: Craven » Mon May 11, 2020 11:27 am

Very interesting, looks as if the Engine number ends with AA, can you tell us these identifying numbers/letters especially those encircled in red.
cast date.jpg
cast date.jpg (81.28 KiB) Viewed 512 times
Craven
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1091
Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Location: south coast uk

PostPost by: Chris-72sprint » Mon May 11, 2020 12:26 pm

trw99 wrote:Chris, the engine number on the block appears to be LP8880. Engine numbers in this sequence were being fitted to cars in late 1967. It does not correspond to an Elan in my records.

However the number appears to have been scratched in, whereas Lotus punched in the numbers on the block, so I would view the number with a degree of scepticism at this stage.

The Engine No on your document is much more likely to be the correct one for your 1972 Sprint, as it corresponds with others of the same time.

Regarding the chassis number. Although that may be the nomenclature on the log book, the correct and unique identifier for your car is the Unit No, the last four figures of the full VIN plus the letter E in your case, denoting a FHC.

Tim


Hi Tim
Thanks for info
My body number is 0492E
Engine number in log book (suspect the original) is N26970
Car was originally Lotus Yellow/white sprint
Registration XRA765L

Do you have any details in your records
Thanks
Chris
Chris-72sprint
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Apr 2020
Location: Suffolk

PostPost by: Chris-72sprint » Mon May 11, 2020 12:50 pm

Craven wrote:Very interesting, looks as if the Engine number ends with AA, can you tell us these identifying numbers/letters especially those encircled in red.
The attachment cast date.jpg is no longer available


Hope you can see this ok
Attachments
CA28AE58-495F-4B40-ADEE-59C07302870A.jpeg and
280AF4FF-9530-4607-B067-B3561E936063.jpeg and
Chris-72sprint
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Apr 2020
Location: Suffolk

PostPost by: Chris-72sprint » Mon May 11, 2020 1:26 pm

alan.barker wrote:What number is stamped on the back end of the head facing the bulkhead :?:
Alan


I think the number is 9673 ?

3 digits with camera behind head
4 digits with mirror/camera
Difficult to get there with engine in car
Attachments
601FE37F-1075-4673-8FD4-5A85ECF01A1D.jpeg and
64ED624A-7757-4366-8BF8-4989CD80ED3C.jpeg and
Chris-72sprint
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Apr 2020
Location: Suffolk

PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon May 11, 2020 2:08 pm

If it's the original head then that is the number of original engine.
Let's see what the record holders say.
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2354
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: Chris-72sprint » Mon May 11, 2020 8:02 pm

Chris-72sprint wrote:
trw99 wrote:Chris, the engine number on the block appears to be LP8880. Engine numbers in this sequence were being fitted to cars in late 1967. It does not correspond to an Elan in my records.

However the number appears to have been scratched in, whereas Lotus punched in the numbers on the block, so I would view the number with a degree of scepticism at this stage.

The Engine No on your document is much more likely to be the correct one for your 1972 Sprint, as it corresponds with others of the same time.

Regarding the chassis number. Although that may be the nomenclature on the log book, the correct and unique identifier for your car is the Unit No, the last four figures of the full VIN plus the letter E in your case, denoting a FHC.

Tim


Hi Tim
Thanks for info
My body number is 0492E
Engine number in log book (suspect the original) is N26970
Car was originally Lotus Yellow/white sprint
Registration XRA765L

Do you have any details in your records
Thanks
Chris


Tim
As follow up I agree my engine number looks suspicious
I have taken another picture and it looks like part or all the original number has been ground off and new digits scratched on - those 8’s look like X’s - Alan asked about the head number - it looks like 9673 or 9623.
Any thoughts/info appreciated
Thanks
Chris
Attachments
3B7BCB69-2872-4423-9D14-E271B5DEC71C.jpeg and
Chris-72sprint
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Apr 2020
Location: Suffolk

PostPost by: Chris-72sprint » Wed May 13, 2020 7:31 pm

Craven wrote:Very interesting, looks as if the Engine number ends with AA, can you tell us these identifying numbers/letters especially those encircled in red.
cast date.jpg


Hi Craven
The numbers on my block that you have circled are 4J4 which I think means 4th September 1964 or 1974.
Where the block in the picture you sent has numbers on the right mine seems to just have a “L” close to the clutch end and a “T3” higher up to the left.
The number on the back of the head is 9623.
Does any of this point to which year/model this engine comes from ?
Thanks
Chris
Chris-72sprint
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Apr 2020
Location: Suffolk

PostPost by: Craven » Wed May 13, 2020 10:28 pm

OK thanks for that extra info, the circled code is the casting date for that block, I would have thought that would be 1964. Block type will tell us for sure, are the large numbers at the other end, that is 120E, in my pic, visible or has it been ground off. By 1974 the block type is quite different identified by a casting ‘projection ‘that accommodates a dipstick used on Escort etc.
Interest in your engine number ending with AA was that the usual Lotus numbers end with LBA but some selected and over bored blocks ended in LAA.
Head number 9623 would be for an engine mid 1967.
Craven
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1091
Joined: 14 Sep 2013
Location: south coast uk
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests