Lotus Elan

Estimate DIY engine rebuild cost?

PostPost by: danbuoy1 » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:16 pm

...I have looked on the forum and net but nothing recent, if there is apologies for asking again.

Bought a basket case +2 and trying to guess car rebuild cost. Hasn't moved for 30yrs, miles show 80k+ and engine semi seized. I thought block was standard Ford but apparently not.....I have lots of experience DIY but not with Lotus. Assuming everything salvagable, what sort of cost to rebuild engine, are spares relatively easy to find?

The gearbox and diff I assume are easy to do....?

Cheers

Paul
danbuoy1
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 26 Jan 2020
Location: UK

PostPost by: Foxie » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:51 am

Are you planning on doing the work yourself ?

At 80k miles and 30 years stationary, you may be well advised to dismantle the engine completely, replace pistons, bearings, and timing chain. If the bores and pistons are good you might get away with a set of rings and bore hone.

If you can turn the engine by hand, it would be useful to move on to turning it on the starter and do a compression check. If that feels ok, you might move on to try starting it with new plugs and points.

If it runs, check the compressions again
.
Might also be time to dismantle head and check valve guides and valves/ valve seats. Replace valve springs.

Complete set of gaskets required.

All spares available from QED, Burtonpower

Bit of work, but reasonable expense for parts.

:)
Last edited by Foxie on Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1008
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:01 am

Hi Paul
Block is standard Ford 1500. Engine, diff, gearbox, rebuild parts availability is good and prices reasonable. Nothing to difficult to do if your familiar with working on other cars and there are lots of resources on this forum to advise if needed. Get yourself a workshop manual at least before you start dismantling things.

The most expensive thing will be the body work and paint unless you can do that yourself.

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7600
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: Chrispy » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:58 am

I did mine 18 months ago. Compression was a bit down in number 2 and had a few oil leaks from the timing cover and leaky valve guides.

Cost was under $2000 aussie dollars. about half of which was the head shop putting in new valve guides and exhaust valve seats which was outside of my skills and tools. The rest was just a gasket kit, bearings, piston rings and treated myself to some ARP headstuds (already had ARP rod bolts).

I spent a lot of time measuring everything with micrometers and was quite lucky. Bores, pistongs and all the journals were well within spec. Just needed a hone. If your bores are no good, and the head has damage/wear then the price will jump up!
Chris
Elan +2 #0245
Exige S2 Supercharged
Chrispy
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 317
Joined: 29 Oct 2017
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPost by: alan.barker » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:51 am

Hi Paul,
at 80,000 miles i would remove and strip Engine for sure it will need a rebuild.
The big problem i have found if an Engine hasn't been turned is that the Piston Rings rust into the Bores. This leaves a horizontal rusty line that can not be removed . If you are lucky it will be on standard bores and no rust line. In which case you can buy a Set of standard NOS Pistons complet with Rings very cheap.
The biggest expense is the Cylinder Head and Bodywork. + Chassis
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: JJDraper » Sun Apr 12, 2020 12:26 pm

A real ' how long is a piece of string' question. A 'basket case' suggest not much can be used as is; barn find suggests, may be useable with some re-commissioning.Also, what do you want as the final outcome, grade A - full concourse show queen; Grade B - good looking useable car; Grade C - tatty but useable.

Grade A & B costs depend on cosmetic bodywork condition - far and away the most expensive part of the process, unless you have access to decent paint shop, and lots of time. Grade A - budget £6-8k for farming out bodywork; £4-6k for engine DIY, although this can be a bottomless pit..; brakes & suspension, £2-3k; chassis (if needed £2-3k & another £3-6k for pretty stuff. Not much change out of £20k+ (UK). Very dependant on the quality of parts and services.

Grade C - depends what you can live with! At the very least, try and rotate the engine with plugs out and some light oil down the bores. Is there any water left in the cooling system? If not engine out and full tear down - probably worth doing anyway. If the top end & bores are OK - £2k parts. Brakes & suspension will need a full recommission - same cost as above.

My advice is to go through all the systems and put together a cost and if you have time, get to Grade C and run it for a while before going further.

Jeremy
User avatar
JJDraper
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1019
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Location: Buckingham, UK

PostPost by: danbuoy1 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:36 pm

Thanks all for replies and info. Its not sentimental value but would aim to restore if possible to keep another on teh road but need to be realistic, I've been here before....

I have no idea why it was taken off the road but info inside suggests it was simply laid up for future use and time has taken its toll.

At that mileage probably best to overhaul engine, I started to look on line at engine parts for ideas and was alarmed to see (as an example) £200+ per piston which made me think it could cost much more than I thought, especially if any head problems! However as above, $2k Aus = about £1k UK for rebuild which doesn't seem to bad, I'd also need to farm out machining. Was thinking to rip engine out and assess before any further work but space is a current factor and would also be a car in bits....

I was sort of thinking £2k on engine and around £8-10k on the rest, starting with new chassis, then of course revamped suspension and...it goes on from there - realistic? [I can paint as well, sometimes!]

Cheers

Paul
danbuoy1
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 26 Jan 2020
Location: UK

PostPost by: JonB » Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:38 pm

Paul, if it was me I'd try to get the engine running as-is.

This might entertain you: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... ZN-_usJeTa

A Ford Capri with a proper seized engine, but somehow these fellows get it running. Look out for the bit where they use a block of wood and a lump hammer to move one of the pistons WHACK WHACK WHACK! Shows you what you can do with a bit of determination!
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2113
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: alanr » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:10 pm

Until the engine is stripped it is totally unknown quantity. Your £2k budget for the engine though is nowhere near enough.
For what its worth I would suggest a preliminary budget of £5k DIY and then just hope and pray you don't find anything too nasty when you strip it.

Alan.
Alan
'71 +2 S130/4
alanr
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 379
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
Location: Derby. UK

PostPost by: wobblyweb » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:07 pm

I've just been looking into this too. Parts for a bottom end build (no head work) are approx as below.
As well as the parts, engine machining, postage and miscellaneous parts not on my list it going to be around £2000, Head work, clutch etc all on top of that.

Rod End bearings £40
Jackshaft bearings £36
Main bearings, £63
Thrust washer £6
Pistons, QED standard type x4 £360
Lotus Twin Cam Oil pump, standard £42
Lotus Twin Cam Bottom gasket set £20
Head and bottom end gaskets plus seals etc. £90
Misc bits, bolts paint, Sealant etc. £100

Sub total £757
VAT £138

Total £895
User avatar
wobblyweb
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 114
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: North East UK

PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:21 pm

I've rebuilt two Twincams in the past 12 months, and they were roughly the same cost.

I stripped them down and took all the parts to the machine shop. For the short motor they chemically cleaned everything, re-bored and re-ground, very light decking and dynamically balanced all the bits. They supplied new Acrylite pistons, and new bearing shells for the crank. The flywheel was lightly skimmed. For the head, they replaced the seats and valve guides and supplied new valves, cam chain, tensioner and cam bearings.

They also cleaned the front cover and replaced the water pump.

Total cost of that lot, including a set of Payen gaskets was £2400 with tax for each engine, give or take. Then I had to paint everything and put it back together.

All parts are available from several different sources.

Mark
User avatar
Elanintheforest
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2907
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Forest Of Dean, Gloucestershire

PostPost by: danbuoy1 » Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:35 pm

Thanks guys, that gives me a feel for engine cost, I forgot about the flywheel/clutch (my other an auto)!

I must have been looking on wrong site for pistons (~1k for 4) which, well frightened me :roll: and wondered what else. Not trying for cheap job but to get an overall feel whether its all worth it. That sounds ok but realise need to get it apart first to check so not holding anybody on estimate :D

I'm actually looking foward to it and Its tempting to start ripping it all apart but apart from space, I've been there before and easy to end up with boxes of bits.

I think its name should be Joseph.....the bonnet after a little rubbing down....

Cheers

Paul
Attachments
IMG_20200411_183817[1].jpg and
danbuoy1
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 26 Jan 2020
Location: UK

PostPost by: mikealdren » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:03 am

If you're going to remove all the paint, try using a chisel! Get it under the edge of the paint and you'll strip it much more quickly and easily than sanding.

Don't use paint stripper, it can get into the fibreglass.
mikealdren
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1064
Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Location: Surrey England

PostPost by: alan.barker » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:33 am

On my TVR 3000M the paint was removed with Vegetal(like Soda) Blasted with a super result dry.
Quick, good with no loss of curves/lines or damage.
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2466
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: danbuoy1 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:53 pm

alan.barker wrote:On my TVR 3000M the paint was removed with Vegetal(like Soda) Blasted with a super result dry.
Quick, good with no loss of curves/lines or damage.
Alan


Thanks Mike and Alan, no paint stripper good idea altho I did use heat gun on my dinghy and did you soda blast yourself or get a company to do it (see post moved so unsure if you'll see this)

Cheers

Paul
danbuoy1
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 54
Joined: 26 Jan 2020
Location: UK
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: 1owner69Elan, saildrive2001 and 14 guests