Lotus Elan

Engine pre oiler

PostPost by: h20hamelan » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:19 pm

I am hoping for a simple, basic system.
Either drilling and tapping into oil pump housing. With a one way check valve, then some style of pump or metal mechanical hand pump even, and the return line to sump i suppose?

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PostPost by: mbell » Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:56 pm

Just T-in on the oil pressure gauge take off.
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:49 pm

Sure, is the opening enough to flow oil that would be sufficient
I think more of at least 1/4” i.d. The oil sender line is maybe a 1/8 i.d.
But I dont know the how’s or if’s.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:29 am

I set one up with an oil accumulator ( Accusump) and a solenoid valve which I switch off to close before stopping the engine so it trapped it full of oil and under pressure. The accumulator was teed into the oil cooler supply line from a sandwich plate on the pump.

I did it for racing to maintain pressure in the wet sump system on hard cornering before they banned them in my racing class and I had to develop a workable swinging baffle sump setup, but it also acted a an engine prelube discharging the contents when the solenoid was switch on to open the valve before starting the engine.

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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed Jan 29, 2020 4:14 am

Interesting, I would need to change my pump i believe, as it is the older screw (not disposable canister) type. Though maybe a longer screw would hold the extra weight, I sort of doubt it.

Thanks again Rohan
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed Jan 29, 2020 5:03 am

Maybe opening/widening the connection at the port. As i recall, it’s a bit larger diameter than the sender sensor line.
Then again, cars are under cover and (as i cant visualize it) maybe the thread is in the block and can not be enlargened?
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 6:04 am

Is there any particular reason why you think you need a pre-oiler?
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:14 am

h20hamelan wrote:Interesting, I would need to change my pump i believe, as it is the older screw (not disposable canister) type. Though maybe a longer screw would hold the extra weight, I sort of doubt it.

Thanks again Rohan

The sandwich plates you see these days are typically designed to screw into the canister style pump and the filter screw onto the sandwich plate. But you may be able to find older style plates that fit the cartridge element style pump with a longer bolt

Early blocks had a small oil pressure sensor port that matched the size of the tube fitting and later blocks a larger one with a reducer fitted either would be OK for just giving a shot from an accumulator for prelube, the smaller one would be to small for oil supply when running.

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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed Jan 29, 2020 3:07 pm

2cams70 wrote:Is there any particular reason why you think you need a pre-oiler?



Thanks, and no.
Other than, much of the time. I am driving something else. I flop the insurance around on vehicles every so often.
My plan is to add an electric fuel pump, in which case they should start more quickly. Maybe, depriving them of the long crank time.
More important, is just to make sure there is oil around. As they seem like expensive engines to replace.

---------------------

"Early blocks had a small oil pressure sensor port that matched the size of the tube fitting and later blocks a larger one with a reducer fitted either would be OK for just giving a shot from an accumulator for prelube, the smaller one would be to small for oil supply when running."

I think I will order a pair of the gear driven pumps only £40 each, as the oil pans will be coming off for baffling. And add a return bung at the time.
Again, only to get oil flowing prior to start.

Kind Regards
Jim
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:06 am

h20hamelan wrote:Thanks, and no. Other than, much of the time. I am driving something else. I flop the insurance around on vehicles every so often.My plan is to add an electric fuel pump, in which case they should start more quickly. Maybe, depriving them of the long crank time.More important, is just to make sure there is oil around. As they seem like expensive engines to replace.


If it's any reassurance I've never heard of or experienced any reports of damage caused to engines by long cranking times and lack of oil priming after a "reasonably" long period of standing idle. The oil filter is vertical so the engine is not prone to oil drainback whilst standing idle. There's always a residual oil film on the bearings and the oil pump rotors. The only possible area of risk is the cam and buckets although again no reports of damage and oil priming won't help much anyway because these parts are splash lubricated.

Some other makes of engines with horizontally mounted oil filters can be problematic however if fitted with poor quality filters not having the OEM specified anti drain back valve or if the fitted valve is poor quality and leaky.

Sounds like a good idea though to fit an electric fuel pump so it starts quickly.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:29 am

Great info. Thanks 2cams70 for all your input here.

I will stand down on the pre oiler, though continue with some baffles. And an electric pump! Probably placed in the differential area to keep noise down (unless there are some critiques on this as a location)?
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:34 am

P.s. The fires must be horrendous, i cant imagine. We live in fear here.

B5A50A63-5057-4B69-98E2-AEFB7B18CFFD.jpeg and



Though is looks like some reprieve for the weekend. Good luck
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:48 am

h20hamelan wrote:Great info. Thanks 2cams70 for all your input here.

I will stand down on the pre oiler, though continue with some baffles. And an electric pump! Probably placed in the differential area to keep noise down (unless there are some critiques on this as a location)?



Have you got the E-Book from Elan Trikbits ( Col Croucher who posts here) on the right sort of baffle design and construction to avoid loss of oil pressure. Its based on the design I developed for my race engines when they banned the accusump in my class. It works well in both road and race cars and I have been using the design in my Elan for about 25 years and about 25000 race miles as have a number of other wet sump twin cam racers and enthusiastic road drivers. If you have the early block and screw in oil pick up in the centre its even easier to fit as you dont need to modify the off centre press in pick up - which is one of the reasons I build my race engines using early 120E blocks

I agree no real history of problems with engine wear due to loss of oil when standing for long periods and I only built the prelube feature as i had the accusump for oil surge reasons and figured it was easy to put in the prelube so why not!

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:01 am

h20hamelan wrote:P.s. The fires must be horrendous, i cant imagine. We live in fear here.


Yes the fires are bad but nowhere near as bad as that satellite image which seems to have been doctored!- probably by the Global Warming movement.

Regarding global warming - I myself really don't have a firm belief whether it's an impending disaster happening or not. The problem for me is that the other side of the story has been obliterated from being able to comment by both the mainstream press and the extreme left. Whenever this is raised as an issue you get shouted down with "Emergency, emergency the time for debate has long passed. We need to act now!!"

Personally I resent being told what to think and like to form my own opinions based on a wide range of differing ideas and opinions presented to me. I'm no expert and therefore like to hear opinions from experts from BOTH sides. For me the Global Warming movement has done itself a great disservice by immediately shutting down any alternative trains of thought. I'm not saying they are necessarily wrong, just that I don't like their methods.

On a more practical level I do see that the world does have finite resources and should therefore be accorded with due respect.
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:48 pm

Thanks, yes. Well, er no.
I would/am going to purchase all his e-books. I was sort of hoping as a book/binder and hopefully at a reduced rate. As they are all such good improvements.
I have his C/V conversions in both elans.

"one of the reasons I build my race engines using early 120E blocks" Interesting. Could we/I ask what the other reasons for the 120E choice?

As per the climate. Here, we are about 10 degrees warmer through out the year.
Always, my argument has been that the sun is in its closest proximity to the earth in the last 60,000 years. And I suppose, if we were still neanderthal its all we would know. I am told the highest increase in temperature in an ice age was about 3degrees. Surely when a meteor or comment hits, or volcano. The earth is covered in dust/ash. I dont know how sound the science there is.

I suspect the garage analogy is widely accepted these days. If you idle your car, in a confined space. You die. Larger scale, if 8 billion people idled their car.

As per consumption, there are far too many things being thrown out. Or not built correctly. I suspect if you have ever watched anyone rummage through the garbage, or dumpster... On that note. France supposedly has stopped grocery stores from throwing stuff out. If its not spoiled yet. The answer. Grocery stores cut packaging of meat, grind produce. I fully understand that destroys profits, if people who would use that food would purchase it from there. But it touches more on the consumption and waste of our specie.
Only because I have a fair size garden and orchard, that I know how difficult it is to produce anything. Also, I live in a small town. Away from anything big. So maybe, in this beautiful land I am allowed enjoy nature!
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