Lotus Elan

Evans coolant

PostPost by: Foxie » Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:00 pm

2cams70 wrote:I certainly wouldn't use that sh** in any of my engines! Having worked in the industry you can safely assume that if it (or a similar product) has never been used by an OEM it's snake oil.

If your engine is overheating there's something wrong with your cooling system that isn't related to the coolant. If the engine is overheating particularly at idle it must be something related to either coolant flow or air flow.


Engine overheating because of gross over-advanced mapped ignition.

I take your point about OEM product use.

That's what's made my mind up.

:)
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 967
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: denicholls2 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:47 am

I'm more than a little mystified that continued operation of an engine more than 40 degrees C over its design operating temperature is considered by anyone as the fault of the coolant. Does the coolant note safe running far beyond design limits as a product feature? Does it recommend ignoring pegged temperature gauges and pressing on simply because the radiator isn't boiling over and removing the coolant from the system?

The product appears to have trade-offs, but from what is presented here I'd say it seems to do just what it represents it does. And making assumptions that it does something else, like raising the melting temperature of aluminum alloy or the boiling point of gasoline, is on the assumer, not on the product. :shock:

Maybe it's because I grew up in the period of the Vega, but I'd never consider continued running of an aluminum block, head, or combination above 100 degrees C regardless of whether it had water, Evans, motor oil, or single malt in the radiator.

Google Evans Coolant as I just did and you'll find a Jay Leno's Garage on the product, featuring the product manager. Jay has been using it sixteen years at the time of the video, and most of his cars are worth a lot more than Elans. The PM does note that there is a difference between water mix and Evans in heat transfer, implying higher general operating temperatures. He also notes there are three blends and the product, unlike anti-freeze, is non-toxic.
denicholls2
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 585
Joined: 23 Jan 2006

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:20 am

The plain facts are that the Evans fluid is a much poorer conductor of heat than plain water or a water/glycol mix. That's why the engine runs hotter with it. The car was designed to run a water/glycol mix and the coolant flow rates, radiator capacity, etc. have all been designed around using a water/glycol mix.

If the engine was designed from scratch for waterless fluid the radiator would be larger, coolant flow rates would probably be higher, etc. etc. It's obviously not a tradeoff the OEM's consider worthwhile. After all considering just cooling properties alone plain water is best of all.

I usually take TV/YouTube personalities opinion of things with a grain of salt. After all they exist primarily because they can command attention, are good talkers and have corresponding egos to match. They aren't generally noted for their engineering or technical abilities.
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 941
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: Andy8421 » Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:34 am

StressCraxx wrote:
RichardHawkins wrote:Roxie,

I thought I remembered something about ethylene glycol used in piston engine aero engines from my student days.

I have just googled to find what coolant was used in the Rolls Merlin engine. The Spitfire Society website says 70% water 30% glycol to prevent fires and oil leaks when using 100% glycol. I suspect Evans is glycol.

Hope this is of interest,

Richard Hawkins


Richard,
You are right, Evans is 100% propylene glycol.

Regards,
Dan


Richard was right-ish.

A quote from many a Spitfire pilot in WW2 films "bally jerry has got my glycol tank" actually referred to ethylene glycol / water mix, 30% ethylene glycol, 70% water. Propylene glycol is similar, far less toxic but has less ability to transfer heat than either water or ethylene glycol.

Some time back when living in Connecticut, I got the idea into my head that running my Jeep on 100% ethylene glycol antifreeze was a good idea. Worked great in the winter and promptly overheated the first hot day we had. A bit of research indicated that pure ethelyne glycol has 35% less ability to transfer heat than pure water.

My recommendation for an Elan is to use a good quality antifreeze with appropriate corrosion inhibitors diluted with water to the manufacturers specification.

https://www.monarchchemicals.co.uk/Information/News-Events/700-/The-difference-between-Propylene-Glycol-and-Ethylene-Glycol-in-antifreeze
Andy8421
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 394
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Location: Surrey, UK

PostPost by: StressCraxx » Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:31 pm

Andy,

Exactly my experience! Well said.
There is no cure for Lotus, only treatment.
User avatar
StressCraxx
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1034
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California

PostPost by: lotusfan » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:20 pm

In the show guide to the 2019 NEC Classic Motor Show there is an Evans Coolants advert. It states 'as used and recommended by National Motor Museum, Historic Porsche Collection and Eagle' as well as 'many more'.

The reference to Porsche made me smile.
Mike
72 Sprint DHC
lotusfan
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 294
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Location: S Bucks, UK

PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:24 pm

I have posted this link a couple of times in the past http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm

Norosion produce a quality antifreeze mixture, so you could say they have an axe to grind here, but I have always been of the mind that proper maintenance of the cooling system coupled together with a quality antifreeze mixture is more than adequate for road cars. John Pelly the Grumpy Bodger would roll his eyes and sigh if anyone mentioned the ?Glycol Snake Oil? in his presence, the reason being that he spent many hours in the design studio at BMW Dachau designing cooling systems.
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
User avatar
Spyder fan
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2541
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Location: Kent country & Sussex seaside UK

PostPost by: mbell » Fri Nov 22, 2019 9:30 pm

Spyder fan wrote:the reason being that he spent many hours in the design studio at BMW Dachau designing cooling systems.


Many BMW owners might give his comments less credit after hearing by that :wink:
'73 +2 130/5 RHD, now on the road and very slowly rolling though a "restoration"
mbell
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1673
Joined: 07 Jun 2013
Location: Austin, TX (UK Ex-pat)

PostPost by: Foxie » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:06 am

Spyder fan wrote:I have posted this link a couple of times in the past http://www.norosion.com/evanstest.htm


That's made my mind up !

Thanks

:)
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 967
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: 661 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:01 pm

So , given the above, please recommend an antifreeze for a new engine. It's a Craig Beck 180hp screamer.
I use this in most other vehicles;
https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-971-fuchs- ... trate.aspx

Any reason to choose differently? It is a virgin system but there is a beauty to keeping with the same stuff in all vehicles to avoid confusion
Graeme
S4 SE
S2 GTS
Peterson JPS Exige
User avatar
661
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 841
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Location: East Sussex

PostPost by: nmauduit » Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:57 pm

for my vehicles, I prefer 25-30% max in deionized water (unless there is a risk of going below -10?C).

then I understand it is best to change the coolant regularly, as the chemical protection from corrosion tend to be consumed over time...
S4SE 36/8198
User avatar
nmauduit
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1485
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: USA64 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 1:54 pm

change the coolant regularly, as the chemical protection from corrosion tend to be consumed over time...

Now that we have that settled (change my mind, esp. Rohan and his soft head :lol: ), does anyone have an opinion on regular vs extended life?
We are supposed to be having fun, are we not?
USA64
Second Gear
Second Gear
 
Posts: 151
Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Location: USA NJ

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 2:04 pm

Foxie wrote:So , given the above, please recommend an antifreeze for a new engine. It's a Craig Beck 180hp screamer.I use this in most other vehicles;https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-971-fuchs- ... trate.aspxAny reason to choose differently? It is a virgin system but there is a beauty to keeping with the same stuff in all vehicles to avoid confusion


I can state with certainty that Fuchs lubricants are used in OEM
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2015 Honda City 5spd.
2cams70
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 941
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: Foxie » Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:57 pm

2cams70 wrote:
Foxie wrote:So , given the above, please recommend an antifreeze for a new engine. It's a Craig Beck 180hp screamer.I use this in most other vehicles;https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-971-fuchs- ... trate.aspxAny reason to choose differently? It is a virgin system but there is a beauty to keeping with the same stuff in all vehicles to avoid confusion


I can state with certainty that Fuchs lubricants are used in OEM


Miss-attributed quote here ! I didn't write the above post, Greame (661 ) did !

(Not that I disagree with anything said ! )

:)
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 967
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland

PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:00 pm

USA64 wrote:
change the coolant regularly, as the chemical protection from corrosion tend to be consumed over time...

Now that we have that settled (change my mind, esp. Rohan and his soft head :lol: ), does anyone have an opinion on regular vs extended life?


If you have the original style copper and solder radiator then conventional "IAT" inorganic acid technology antifreeze should be used as it protects these metals better. It normally has a recommended life of 2 years though I use a long life version from Nulon in Australia which lasts 4 years. The extended life "OAT" organic acid technology and "HOAT" hybrid organic acid technology was developed when cars went to Aluminium radiators and can be used if you have converted to a modern aluminium radiator. These have a normal life of 4 or 5 years though again long life versions exist and i use one from Nulon with an 8 year recommended life.

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7513
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests