Lotus Elan

Calling Rohan (engine sealants)

PostPost by: jono » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:03 am

Rohan,

I'd be grateful if you would sense check my understanding of your advise on sealants as I am just about to reassemble my engine.

I have the following sealants:

Loctite copper, black and grey
Aviation Nr 3 gasket cement (Permatex, made for them by Loctite)
Loctite 518 flange sealant.

From your advice in other postings I am proposing to:

Stick cam cover gasket to head with the Nr 3 aviation gasket cement and apply a film of oil to the cover mating face
Seal the cam cover senloc washers with Loctite black rtv
Use Nr 3 on both sides of the cork gasket between head and timing chest
Half moon plugs - Loctite black rtv
Rubber drain tube - Loctite black rtv
Oil pump - Aviation Nr 3 on both sides of gasket
Front cover back plate - Nr 3 aviation on both sides of gasket
Front cover to backplate metal joints - Loctite 518
Water pump into backplate, and O ring - a smear of Loctite 518 or Loctite grey rtv?
Sump gasket - Aviation Nr 3
Cork crank seals - Aviation Nr 3

Where I'm a little unclear is where you suggest using silicone in the coners of the sump pan and whether this is compatible with the Aviation Nr 3 which I gather is used on both sides of the sump gaskets as well as the cork crank seals

What is the process here - can copper rtv be applied into those corners and use Nr 3 everwhere else? I'm concerned that both products will not 'mingle' and result in a leak (or have I misunderstood the detail here?)

Further, would you suggest using Loctite black on the front cover bolts?

As usual your comments would be very much appreciated

Jon
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:56 am

I use a thin film of Aviation Gasket sealer No3 on both sides of all the paper and cork gaskets except for the cam cover gasket on top which I just coat with a film of oil so that the cover can be removed without destroying the gasket. Allow the No3 to go tacky before bolting the join together as this prevents the cork gaskets from getting squeezed out.

I use the Loctite 518 anaerobic gasket former on metal to metal joins such as the front cover. I also delete the paper gasket on the oil pump on race engines and just use the 518 as at 8000rpm the oil pumps crack around the bolt holes with the paper gasket under them due to the additional flexibility it allows.

I just use Loctite high temperature silicone ( either red or copper coloured) in very small quantities in a few select areas typically when fitting rubber components or components that dont have a precise fit i.e. I always wipe away any excess that may get on the inside surface of the engine which is generally possible where I use it.
1. Between the head and rubber half moons taking care to remove any excess from the inside before the cam cover goes on.
2. On the washer on top of the cam cover bolts,
3. Around the rubber drain tube top and bottom making sure it is only on the top and bottom face of the tube and does not get squeezed in.
4. In the corners of the sump gaskets. after I stick the sump gasket to the block with No3. I then coat the other face with No3 and let that go tacky and I put a small fillet of maybe 3mm of the slicone in the corners where the gasket sections join. The silicone sites on the no3 coated surface and does not mingle and the silicone helps seal the corner that can sometimes leak as the cork is sometimes not properly compressed in the corner. I also normally find I need to trim 3 or 4 mm of the semicircular cork gaskets so they sit correctly in the groove and dont over compress the flat cork strip at the join when the sump is bolted down.
5. When fitting the front and rear crank seals
6. I also use high temperature silicone on the exhaust to head gaskets

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: jono » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:09 am

Brilliant, thanks again Rohan,

..fingers crossed for my first leak free TC! (my hopes are high and my expectations are low)

Regards

Jon
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PostPost by: rjaxe » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:48 am

Same from me Rohan, I will be pulling my engine this year to sort out various leaks etc this type of specific info is invaluable. It?s great we have this site to enable it to be shared.
Regards
Richard
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PostPost by: 612kiwi3333 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:22 pm

We all thank you Rohan!
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:38 pm

rohan - you're the man!!!!! i also love your constant contributions and answers, BUT you're turning into uncle ROHAN............................. where you get all of the engine questions and 99% the same answers: doesn't this become boring my dear friend??? sandy ..................most of the problems you deal with are contraproductive as 90% of the problems are due to neglectance and saving!!! a well restored elan is like a new audi and there's loads of parts which need care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my punk causes none of the problems i constantly read of -------------- aint i a stinker (bugs!) sandy PS: be happy they dont ask about springs, dampers, ride height etc-----------
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:18 am

Hi Sandy
When I first got my Elan back in the mid 70's there was no internet and only a few local suppliers who knew anything or had parts. I spent many years trying to get the information I needed as most of the people who knew anything were in the business to try to sell their services and would not tell you much about what they were doing. When it came to building engines and especially race engines people got even more mysterious and secretive to protect their"racing secrets". Piecing together data from many different sources and from my own work and analysis has been an interesting challenge and has enable me to understand many of the mysteries

In more recent years and the internet world I have tried to contribute to the worldwide understanding by sharing real data and real experience that I have gained and many others do also on this site. Unfortunately the easier ability to share also makes sharing of the wrong answers more possible which is why I don't mind repeating the messages. I am always learning new things about my Lotus and always happy to admit when I am wrong as that means I have learned something more.

I probably answer as many PM's as I do in the public forums from people asking for advice and I am happy to keep doing so if it contributes to the real use and enjoyment of Elans on the road and track rather than having them locked in sheds as "investments"

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: Bud English » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:28 am

...and a huge THANK YOU for that. :!:
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Sun Feb 25, 2018 7:50 am

thanks rohan - i'm only good enough to build an oiltight engine etc... (the bits i used and the head machining/preperations came from bristol!) however too many of our elans should get more care and shortcuts (????) only make everything worse. imho some folks should be willing to wait (again ????) to get IT done right. i've had my car on the road since 1984 and more than once i had to wait or save, BUT i never looked for a shortcut. i can't explain engineerings tasks properly as i studied here and german is the language we used ---- my engineering english just ain't good enough!! sandy (even though: I sometime CAN contribute: Body and FRPs) mrgreen:
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:13 am

Shortcuts often don't save you much money initially and usually cost you more in the end. However there are cheaper and more expensive ways to do most things, Knowing the cheapest way to get the needed outcome is what engineering is all about :D

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