Lotus Elan

Engine and Gearbox fit

PostPost by: Matt Elan » Mon May 30, 2016 1:53 pm

As you are all aware I got my engine and gearbox in the Plus 2's early spyder chassis a little while ago. So I was happily messing around doing the brake lines and fuel line, when I came across the voting which showed the right way round for the gearbox mount. Ah ha I thought, maybe that's why my gearbox tail is so close to the chassis side - so I checked, it was the wrong way round so I swapped it over and got rid of the spacers I'd fitted to the gearbox mount cross member.
And of course when everything was tightened up, the offside of the gearbox tail casings is really tight to the chassis where it enters the centre section. Doh.

Now something is not quite right here, so I've taken some shots of the engine mounts and gearbox to see if anyone can see what I've done wrong - 'cos I must have something out. As I said its a Spyder chassis, early one (numbers is around 450). I've got new rubber engine mounts and chassis mounts from Spyder, the chassis mounts are the right way round (assuming Spyder stamped them correctly) - I'm not sure about the engine rubber mounts - hence the pictures!

Picture 1 shows the closeness of the gearbox to the LHS of the chassis

sp5302336.jpg and


and the next two pics show the engine mounts - the question is are they the right way round?

sp5302335.jpg and


sp5302332.jpg and



Looking forward to some suggestions before I whip of the engine mounts and swap them around.......
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PostPost by: Craven » Mon May 30, 2016 5:09 pm

Probably not much help but, Spyder have a different way of fitting the engine in the 2 seat Elan.
Their engine plates are marked LH & RH and are fitted to the Engine! They use two standard Ford rubber mounts fitted with the U closed end down but fitted to the chassis.
FWIW,
Ron.
engmou1.jpg and

eng.jpg and
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PostPost by: Bud English » Mon May 30, 2016 5:21 pm

Matt- In either case, aren't the motor mount spacers used on the exhaust side of the motor? I don't see any in your pics.
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PostPost by: PeterK » Mon May 30, 2016 5:26 pm

No need for engine spacers on a plus 2 - no issues with carbs hitting the bulkhead like the (baby :oops: ) Elan.

The spacers were between the gearbox cross-member and the chassis.
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PostPost by: Bud English » Mon May 30, 2016 5:33 pm

Ah, must be a Spyder thing as they are used on the original +2 setup. :oops:
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PostPost by: Matt Elan » Mon May 30, 2016 6:05 pm

Hmmmm.. thanks guys - all very useful. The plus 2 workshop manual does show the spacers - 4 off on the carb side - that could well be the problem as I don't have any.

Craven's post is also interesting - are there any others out there with a Plus 2 Spyder chassis who can confirm that the Spyder mounts bolt to the engine and the rubber mounts bolt to the chassis?

I'll give Spyder a ring tomorrow and check where their mounts bolt on, and order up some spacers.
It is always useful to get first hand experience!
Thanks guys
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon May 30, 2016 8:45 pm

I have a 25 year old Plus 2 spyder chassis in my car. The arms mount to the engine and the mounts bolt to the chassis. No spacers are required as the exhaust arm is longer than the inlet arm.. The mounts go upside down compared to the way in the Lotus chassis when mounted to the engine. Two standard mounts are used as the arms also position the engine height correctly.

I have the Lotus 5 speed box and no spacers were required on the gearbox mount either as the rear mount plate is correctly sized without them.

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PostPost by: PeterK » Mon May 30, 2016 9:02 pm

Matt
Rohan mounted his Spyder mounts to the engine (as I did on my Zetec). You have the rubber mounts on the engine and the Spyder mounts on the chassis. Maybe time to swap them around ?

As Rohan says, longer arm on the exhaust side.
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon May 30, 2016 10:29 pm

PeterK wrote:No need for engine spacers on a plus 2 - no issues with carbs hitting the bulkhead like the (baby :oops: ) Elan.

The spacers were between the gearbox cross-member and the chassis.
Peter



The engine spacers are not for the carb-hitting-boddy problem. That's done with a higher mount on the carb side.

The engine spacers are to centralise the engine, I think.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue May 31, 2016 11:24 am

Yes the block is wider on the inlet side due to the camshaft on that side. The spacers make up for this on the exhaust side to centralise the engine with the same engine mount chassis bracket on each side with the standard Lotus Chassis. With the Spyder chassis system the mounts go on the chassis and the arms are a different length and you dont need the spacers but you need the right arm on the right side to centralise the engine

The high lift mount is not required on the Plus 2 with a standard or spyder chassis due to extra clearance on the footwell below the carbs compared to the Elan. An Elan with a Spyder chassis also does not need the highlift mount as the arms provide the extra height needed on the Carb side.

The other variation that can screw you up is that the later tall block 711 blocks had larger mounting bosses on the exhaust side of the block and thus require a smaller spacer to be centralised in a standard Lotus Elan or Plus 2 chassis. In a Spyder chassis that does not use the spacers you need to have modified arms from the mount on the chassis to the block on the exhaust side if using a 711 block

I think I have got all the variations but there may be other possibilities ????

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PostPost by: Matt Elan » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:37 am

Morning all

Thanks for all the reply - especially Rohan's ....

I've spoken to Spyder and they confirmed that the rubber mounts are bolted to the chassis and the solid mounts to the engine, so I have them the wrong way round. (PeteK did suggest this was the case when we fitted the engine but as he has a Zetec in his Plus 2 I decided that he couldn't possibly be right. Sorry Pete :D )

Spyder also said that I would need the spacers on the exhaust side mounting, unlike Rohan's comment. I've ordered some up and will get the trolley jack, spanners and levers out later this week to see which fits the best........

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:44 am

If Spyder say you need spacers on the arms then Spyder have changed their design at some stage because they are definitively not needed on my Plus 2 and would not fit. If you have assemble the arms and mounts without the spacers even if the wrong way around I beleive you will struggle to mount the spacers. If one arm is longer than the other then you dont need spacers and the long arm goes on the exhaust side.

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PostPost by: Geoffers71 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:35 am

The arms on my Spyder chassis DO have the spacers on the exhaust side. The arms are marked RH and LH. The chassis is the older one I believe, probably over 25 years old, though only recently on the road.

Oh, you're talking about a Plus 2, probably different then ? Sorry :oops:
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:41 am

I apologise my memory was faulty :oops: as my Plus 2 is currently in bits and I did not sort through all the boxes to find the spacers. The Spyder arms on my Plus 2 did have spacers on the exhaust side. I just found a relevant picture that shows them :oops: :oops:

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PostPost by: Matt Elan » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:38 pm

Thanks for the update Rohan - I'll be having fun trying to get it all in place this weekend!
regards
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