crank front seal

[dgym]

was a bit shocked yesterday to see a massive puddle of oil under the front of the car.
After watching oil literally POUR out of the crank front seal, the car isn't going anywhere for a while .

So,
I'm guessing this is an engine out job? is that what I need to prepare myself for?

cheers,

[dgym]

oooh hold on,
is it possible to remove the sump and timing cover with the engine in place? It's the timing cover crank seal that's leaking.
I have spyder chassis so I guess that's a yes for the sump.

cheers

[alan]

are you sure there is the correct quantity of o?l in sump and not overfilled

[dgym]

Thanks Alan,
the level looks good from the dip stick. showing between the two upper dots.

and it wasn't leaking until yesterday so unfortunately I don't think that's it.

I just did some more creative forum searching and came up with some suggestions about if the head/sump need to come off.

I'll have to think it through and come up with a plan.

cheers,
Jim

[john.p.clegg]

Jim

"between the two upper dots. ",what kind of dipstick do you have?...should be lines...which leads me to think that your oil-level/dipstick/tube needs calibrating..


John

P.S. also wondering if you have the oil-slinger fitted?

[rgh0]

The front seal can be removed with the engine in place.

Remove the radiator, remove the front crank pulley, lever the seal out of the housing ( seal pulling tool makes this easy but a big screwdriver will do it also) , tap a new seal back carefully using a large socket or block of wood, replace the pulley and replace the radiator.

There is no seating lip for the seal so be careful not to drive it in to deep into the front cover.

For the seal to have oil "pouring out" all of a sudden is strange but I guess could happen if the seal was old and brittle and has finally had a section crack of it. Have you done any other work on the engine recently especially with oil or oil level as others have observed or with the engine breather arrangements

cheers
Rohan

[dgym]

Hmm, the dots may in fact be lines

This is brilliant news about the cover not having to come off! Excellent.

As for engine work; it was supposedly rebuilt before I purchased it.. But I never saw a receipt. And it can always be done badly!

Now here's what I've done that could be related to breathing:
That's is a catch can that had both the engine breather and radiator overflow routed to it. I didn't like this and removed the radiator tube from the tank.
I have flipped the brake booster as it jammed on me at one stage. This involved some gentle massaging and bending of brake lines and some intake to booster hose movement. I might look into if I've done something here!

Another thing was the sealing of any headlamp leaks. They work very well now.

Thanks guys!

[rgh0]

You want to make sure that the engine breather has not become blocked in some way and is still freely venting fumes. If you build up crank case pressure the first place that leaks to vent the pressure is the front seal and it brings lots of oil with it.

Try removing the filler cap with the engine running and see if the leak changes. You will spray some oil out when you remove the cap so hold a cloth loosely over the opening to catch the oil and avoid spraying your garage!

cheers
Rohan

[dgym]

Thanks Rohan I'll do that tomorrow.

[AHM]

It would be quite difficult to get oil to pour out of the front oil seal. And hard to see it with the pulley on.

Check the cork sump gasket below it and the oil pressure take-off on the side of the engine - that pours when it comes off!

[dgym]

SO,
I ran the engine again and watched more oil pour out of the seal. (it IS coming from the seal)

took the filler cap off and nothing changed.

I removed the radiator and got a better view, appears as though the seal is half out?
so I pulled the pulley off only to have the seal come with it!

There appears to be no damage to the seal. But it obviously isn't staying in place. I popped it back in and out pretty easily and i'm guessing it should be a tighter fit than that.

I'm also wondering as I think Rohan was suggesting If I have created some extra crank case pressure and pushed the thing out.

I have ordered a replacement seal and it's on it's way to me now.

I was thinking about positive crankcase ventilation on this car as I went to sleep. I guess you've got the take off for the brakes and for the headlights, but there isn't really a system like an MGB or Triumph has is there? using intake to suck the pressure from the bottom end and stop the engine from bursting its seams with oil?

i'll do some forum'ing.

[englishmaninwales]

I had a front crank seal pop out on my K series engine in my Caterham. It transpired that it was under size. It was purchased as part of a non OE cheap gasket set.

I guess the lesson is only buy the best and from a reputable outlet.

As well as the others have said with regard to your engine ventilation.

(Happened at speed - 4 bar pressure - the mess was appalling on the road, in the engine bay and on the driveway of the poor home owner I stopped in ). I went back to clean it up !)

Malcolm

[dgym]

well i'm glad my mess wasn't to that extent ! sounds...messy!

I've ordered the seal through SJ Sportscars, (being new to ordering elan parts I'm slowly working my way through all the different suppliers).
I guess i'll see what I get!

I must say my new car shows evidence of a lot of lack-luster care through previous owners, so i'm sure the seal didn't have much thought put into it.

[rgh0]

In normal road use the standard crank case vent system on the right rear of the head is adequate and should not result in high positive crank case pressure if not blocked. There was a wire mesh at the start of the pipe from the head to air box make sure that is clean and the head vents freely to the air box.

It sounds like the seal or front cover was worn / corroded / wrong type so that the seal was not a tight press fit. Was the seal red / brown in colour and rubber coated on the outside?

Check the new one is not loose and that it needs to be firmly driven in. Some Loctite bearing retainer can help if needed but the correct seal is rubber coated on the outside so does not really need it.

cheers
Rohan

[dgym]

It's black!
and i'd call it a hard plastic on the outside.