Dry sump in an Elan, What where and how much?

[tvacc]

Hi all,

Thinking about dry sumping my Elan with the Spyder chassis and the 26R body. I have a dry sump in my Caterham, so I know how to do it on a crossflow. Need help with the Elan.

Dont know where to buy, how much, or if anyone has a used setup out there.

Any help is appreciated.

thanks.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Hi,

all of the components you will need & the method of plumbing for your Elan are the same as for the x-flow in the Caterham.
I suppose that you already know that.
The problem with the Elan is the limited space in the engine bay.
I have seen some very odd solutions for the positioning of things like the oil tank & remote filter.
For some reason quite a few owners opt to putting the oil tank in the boot (trunk) or somewhere in the passenger space.
The best solution is to put these bits somewhere in the engine bay where the length of the pipe runs can be kept to an absolute minimum.
The shorter pipe runs will reduce pressure losses & put less load on the oil pump.
The tank should have enough capacity & be tall enough to permit the maximum possible oil de-aeration.

Dry sumping is an expensive solution & properly baffling a standard sump can bring great benefits in cornering capability.
I think that dry sumping is often outlawed in quite a few historic race regs but once again you will be well aware of that & also know the specific use that your Elan will be put to.

Have a look around the racing section on here, some of the guys there may have more practical information & maybe some parts sources.

It'll be good to hear about your progress & see some photos of the end solution.

Cheers
John

[cabc26b]

Tony,

If its a LHD car then the RH foot well is a very convenient and to Johns point keeps the plumbing runs real short. In the US you will be ok with a dry sump on the east coast , they will let you run but will move you up a group ( once you show up with a 26r body they do that anyways) some of the west coast groups won't let you run a dry sump

Bean, Pegasus, transatlantic, Savannah racing, etc will have the stuff in the US or you can go to Burton or Pace Products overseas.

Its expensive , must $2K by the time your done but works absolutely - the slick Johnson pump is not much cheaper by the time you do all the other things but no one will turn you away and you get this really nice looking pump you hope holds pressure .

George

[tvacc]

Jeff at JAE recommended a pan specially baffled for racing. Does anyone have a source for one of those?

I do have a swinging oil pickup on the car.

[cabc26b]

a pan specially baffled for racing

giving up on dry sump and switching back to wet sump ?

[Ross Robbins]

Tony:

Check out this thread. http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/elan-f15/baffled-sumps-t17849.html

I have downloaded the pamphlet by Col and it is very thorough. I found a pan already done in a similar way that I used and it is great. NO pressure drop no matter how hard I drive the Elan.
Ross

[memini55]

Tony,

I would second the baffled sump idea and follow Ross's lead. I just built one for our race motor in the autocross car as Col
has outlined.

I have also had DB make a baffled sump pan as a custom. Send them your pan and it comes back all built for a nice fee of course.

Mark

[holywood3645]

Baffled sump and maybe an accusump accumlator in the door sill might be a decent option.

http://www.accusump.com/accusump_units.html

James

[upnorthelan]

I might add in addition to a baffled sump, you could plumb an accusump for ~$400. I have a 1 quart that gets me through any tight right hander I've encountered at my local tracks and also has the added benefit oil pre-oiling your bearings upon start up. Something a drysump won't do. VSCDA in the midwest does not allow drysump for Elans although I've seen 2 that are.

Mike

[tvacc]

I have an accusump sitting here that I might put in. Sort of big though. Will not fit in the sill.

I am leaning towards the baffled pan. I am going to ask my brother in law (that is a member of this forum, so he can get ready) to see if he wants to modify my pan. He is really good at stuff like that. I just have to see how the rotating pickup will work with the design I see in another post.

http://www.elantrikbits.com/baffle.html

I have not problem in paying the $27 for the design, I just want to find out if it will work first with my rotating pickup.

[rgh0]

Hi Tony

If you have a rotating pickup you should not need to use a baffled sump as the pickup moves to where the oil is during cornering and braking. The baffled sump design that Col sells is based on the design I have used in my competition engines and it works very well but is designed to use a fixed central pickup not a rotating pickup.

If you dont suffer any oil pressure loss problems with your rotating pick up then you should not need to go you a baffled sump or a dry sump arrangement.

cheers
Rohan

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Hi Tony,

I think we've covered most aspects by now, going from the expensive dry sump option to the relatively cheap but very effective baffled sump & your rotating pick-up.
To go any further I think it may be useful to know what particular problem(s) you are contemplating/experiencing & are hoping to eliminate.

There's a host of experience on here about lubrication systems & most likely a good solution to your quest will result provided you can provide the necessary information.

Cheers
John

[tvacc]

Thanks all. I will put the motor back together and test it in the spring. We can revisit this then.

[Jeff@Jae]

Sumps, dry sumps etc.. Swinging or rotating pickups don't work because all the wetsump oil pumps made in the last couple of decades have the bypass directly back to the inlet not allowing oil to the swinger to keep it sealed and not sucking air. Just forget these things altogether.
The racing oil pan sold by Dave Bean Engineering, us at JAE and from Tony Ingram are fabricated by Chris Schroeder and they are excellent with extra capacity, full windage control and totally high G proof against oil starvation. Expensive but far less than a trashed engine. Finding core oil pans is the biggest issue with supply and they take a lot of hours of fabrication. These are used by many vintage production based race cars where dry sumps are not allowed and are well proven for many years now.
Going to dry sump, as mentioned, is expensive and a bit of a space nightmare on an Elan. That said a dry sump system is well proven on many race cars for many years. Sports racers and formula cars use these exclusively and the best of all for a 200HP Twin Cam at 9500 RPM.

[tvacc]

Jeff, that swinging one is already on my car and I will have to see if I can replace it while the motor is in the car.
So I get from your post that this swinging thing is really not going to work?