TDC obstruction
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I have just recovered my Elan from long term storage and am freeing off things in order to better prepare it for the next few years of storage.
She has been off the road for 27 years, I bought her 14 yearsa ago and got her running well enough to do a couple of illegal nocturnal and early morning spins, the motor ran well then but circumstances dictated that she wasnt always dry stored and I didnt properly prepare her, never thinking that it would be this long.
The crank moved initially a few degrees which gave me some hope so rather than push my luck I removed the plugs and have been adding WD40 to the cylinders and the valve gear for a few days.
Today she turned over easily but I deliberately chose a short spanner and took things very easy, there is an obstruction at TDC on either cylinder 2 or 3, turning the engine backwards through 360 degrees meets the same resistance.
i initially suspected a stuck valve, probably inlet but in the turning back and forth they all appear to be opening and closing freely, the tappets rotating freely etc, I cannot see any excessive tappet clearances although did not have my feeler guages, with the pistons at mid stroke all the valves can be levered open and seem to close properly.
I dont really want to pop the head at this time, I am in France and all my decent tools and workshop facilities are in the UK as are all my twin cam books and manuals.
My next step was going to be to remove the cams and followers for a better look and to see if it removes the obstruction, my concern is with keeping the jack shaft alignment while I am turning the crank over, I suppose I could rig up some kind of sky hook to put some tension on the chain or is it guided in such a way that the chain cannot come off the jackshaft sprocket even when the cam sprockets (and cams) are removed?
Failing that I am going to have to ask someone to describe the rotor arm alignment with cylinder 1 at TDC on the firing stroke whereas a photo like the one in my manual 200 miles away is much easier.
If I can do so without major stripping I want to fire up the engine to run thorugh some flushing oil and especially to flush the cooling system (whick looks horrid) before putting her back into storage with fresh oil and anti-freeze/corrosion inhibitor.
Tthanking you in advance
She has been off the road for 27 years, I bought her 14 yearsa ago and got her running well enough to do a couple of illegal nocturnal and early morning spins, the motor ran well then but circumstances dictated that she wasnt always dry stored and I didnt properly prepare her, never thinking that it would be this long.
The crank moved initially a few degrees which gave me some hope so rather than push my luck I removed the plugs and have been adding WD40 to the cylinders and the valve gear for a few days.
Today she turned over easily but I deliberately chose a short spanner and took things very easy, there is an obstruction at TDC on either cylinder 2 or 3, turning the engine backwards through 360 degrees meets the same resistance.
i initially suspected a stuck valve, probably inlet but in the turning back and forth they all appear to be opening and closing freely, the tappets rotating freely etc, I cannot see any excessive tappet clearances although did not have my feeler guages, with the pistons at mid stroke all the valves can be levered open and seem to close properly.
I dont really want to pop the head at this time, I am in France and all my decent tools and workshop facilities are in the UK as are all my twin cam books and manuals.
My next step was going to be to remove the cams and followers for a better look and to see if it removes the obstruction, my concern is with keeping the jack shaft alignment while I am turning the crank over, I suppose I could rig up some kind of sky hook to put some tension on the chain or is it guided in such a way that the chain cannot come off the jackshaft sprocket even when the cam sprockets (and cams) are removed?
Failing that I am going to have to ask someone to describe the rotor arm alignment with cylinder 1 at TDC on the firing stroke whereas a photo like the one in my manual 200 miles away is much easier.
If I can do so without major stripping I want to fire up the engine to run thorugh some flushing oil and especially to flush the cooling system (whick looks horrid) before putting her back into storage with fresh oil and anti-freeze/corrosion inhibitor.
Tthanking you in advance
- Chancer
- Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 1132
- Joined: 20 Mar 2012
I'd be inclined to suggest there's a little rust on the cylinder bore above where the piston came to its long rest.
Try something a little more "useful" than WD40 (only any good for moisture displacement, IMO). Diesel fuel's better - I can't remember what you can get in France as I haven't lived there for a while - I use Kroil here. Anyway, something that'll help dissolve and shift the rust. Then try again, not so hard you'll break a ring or anything, but if you haven't got a valve stuck it's hard to imagine what else you could have.
Try something a little more "useful" than WD40 (only any good for moisture displacement, IMO). Diesel fuel's better - I can't remember what you can get in France as I haven't lived there for a while - I use Kroil here. Anyway, something that'll help dissolve and shift the rust. Then try again, not so hard you'll break a ring or anything, but if you haven't got a valve stuck it's hard to imagine what else you could have.
-
RogerFrench - Fourth Gear
- Posts: 535
- Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Thanks for the reply Roger, I was beginning to think that I had been sent to Coventry as most of my postings/questions have gone unanswered, I have read about some previous bickering on the forum before my time, I wondered if i had walked in just after a big row when everyone is keeping schtuum!
Anyway i did get to the bottom of the problem, as I started to remove the cams i noticed that the exhaust cam looked to be retarded so i set about retiming them both, the car had previously run well and didnt seem down on power but when you dont really know a vehicle you can be caught out, I once bought a suzuki SJ that had had the head gasket done, it just seemed ever so slightly flat and it was only after a week of driving that I began to have suspicions, I retimed the cam and the motor immediately revved up in double time.
On my twink it was due to the chain stretch, with the inlet cam correctly timed I had a choice of half a tooth advanced or half a tooth retarded on the exhaust cam so i tried it in the other position and the motor turned freely, I have no idea why it should have manifested itself now, there was no slack in the chain so it cannot have jumped the sprocket, whilst I am sure that the starter would have overcome the resistance and the motor must have been running like that before I would definitely have recognised the noise and as it was blocking a few degrees either side of TDC I am certain that it would have bent a valve.
I spent today flushing the block sorting out the dizzy and carbs and hope to start her tomorrow, I will do a lot of cranking first and then a compression test before hot wiring the coil.
Its 14 years since she has been started and apart from that one time its been 25 years since she has been in use.
I have a 50/50 mix of oil and paraffin in the sump to try and clear out the remnants of the old acidic oil which I fear has probably already done its damage.
these last couple of days its been like falling in love all over again!
Anyway i did get to the bottom of the problem, as I started to remove the cams i noticed that the exhaust cam looked to be retarded so i set about retiming them both, the car had previously run well and didnt seem down on power but when you dont really know a vehicle you can be caught out, I once bought a suzuki SJ that had had the head gasket done, it just seemed ever so slightly flat and it was only after a week of driving that I began to have suspicions, I retimed the cam and the motor immediately revved up in double time.
On my twink it was due to the chain stretch, with the inlet cam correctly timed I had a choice of half a tooth advanced or half a tooth retarded on the exhaust cam so i tried it in the other position and the motor turned freely, I have no idea why it should have manifested itself now, there was no slack in the chain so it cannot have jumped the sprocket, whilst I am sure that the starter would have overcome the resistance and the motor must have been running like that before I would definitely have recognised the noise and as it was blocking a few degrees either side of TDC I am certain that it would have bent a valve.
I spent today flushing the block sorting out the dizzy and carbs and hope to start her tomorrow, I will do a lot of cranking first and then a compression test before hot wiring the coil.
Its 14 years since she has been started and apart from that one time its been 25 years since she has been in use.
I have a 50/50 mix of oil and paraffin in the sump to try and clear out the remnants of the old acidic oil which I fear has probably already done its damage.
these last couple of days its been like falling in love all over again!
- Chancer
- Coveted Fifth Gear
- Posts: 1132
- Joined: 20 Mar 2012
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