Lotus Elan

Engine identification

PostPost by: au-yt » Tue Aug 22, 2017 8:40 am

Hi all I returned to the Lotus fold with a Twin Cam powered 1985 Caterham registered as a Lotus 7 delivered as a kit but our roads people didn't have a Caterham listed. I call the car an S3 Twin Cam Continuation
enough of that,
The block/ engine came from a Plus2 and is similar to one discussed on this thread with parts of the casting number ground off.
It took an endoscope connected to my phone to see the L on the block.

Has anyone have an update on whats been reported on the grinding and re stamping of the block?

T4 also has me confused as I haven't found it mentioned online as a lotus casting, any thoughts?
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2017-08-22-13-28-00.jpg and
2017-08-22-13-22-35.jpg and
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:09 am

The T numbers relate to the casting core sets that were used to form the sand casting moulds. Various myths about high versus low T numbers being good exist but as far as i can tell there is no systematic differences in the castings based on ultrasonic measurements. L versus non L blocks also show no systematic difference from ultrasonic measurement either.

Grinding of of the casting numbers appears to have been a practice in the late sixties and potentially related to Lotus Corina production at the time where the Cortina engines were stamped with a different number in the ground area and the Lotus engines left blank. But really only guessing on this

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:10 pm

Maybe "LF" means Lotus Ford out of an English Twin Cam Escort or Mk2 Lotus Cortina? In the Elans I assume "LP" means Lotus Production. The number on the engine out of my Australian built Escort Twin Cam is prefixed "JP". No idea what this stands for - maybe JAP production? The engines as far as I'm aware were brought to Australia CBU.
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PostPost by: au-yt » Tue Aug 22, 2017 9:14 pm

Guys Thanks for the insight, The engine needs rework as it sounds like a broken ring clicking away at idle and a gale from the oil filler cap.
Hopefully it hasn't been bored to with in an inch of its life and its got square mains caps and a 6 bolt fly wheel
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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:29 am

Sorry in my previous post I was responding the string on the first page of this topic ! I expect Ford ground and manually altered the cast in block part numbers after boring the block to the Lotus 82.5mm cylinder dimension. This would have been to distinguish these blocks form standard production 1500cc blocks with 81mm cylinder dimension. Otherwise they would have had in their system two block types of differing specification with the same part number.
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PostPost by: au-yt » Wed Aug 23, 2017 5:04 am

That fits with others who have said it was to distinguish them in production.
Some escaped as there is one post where 6 blocks have been found in MK1 and 11 Cortinas probably press cars as they went better!
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:33 am

2cams70 wrote:Sorry in my previous post I was responding the string on the first page of this topic ! I expect Ford ground and manually altered the cast in block part numbers after boring the block to the Lotus 82.5mm cylinder dimension. This would have been to distinguish these blocks form standard production 1500cc blocks with 81mm cylinder dimension. Otherwise they would have had in their system two block types of differing specification with the same part number.


They did not do it on the early 120E block engines or on the later 601M block engines. Mainly appears to have been done on late 60's 681F "L" block engines

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PostPost by: Battle1066 » Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:18 pm

Hello, sorry to drag up an old thread, but I have the same question as Alistair below. I would have contacted him directly, but I am a new member, so don't have the ability to do that yet.

For the record, I do not own an Elan either, but just purchased a 1964 Turner MKIII which was an old SCCA race car. It have two engines and I trying to figure out exactly what I have. This has been the only place I have found any mention of the 122E possibly being stamped with the engine number, rather than cast into the block.

Mine is cast 120E, but then the engine number on the mount has 122E stamped above it. From memory the engine was cast in July 66 (so likely not original to the car), I am told by the prior owner that he believed it was either a Lotus or Cortina GT engine.

Also another odd question, my engine number has one digit that looks like an odd shaped O, more like the top half of an A, but on a slant..... any ideas on that? The number looks original with no grinder marks etc.

Thanks in advance.

Alex



Hello Gents,
What a fascinating forum - whenever I google for info on ford blocks, I'm more or less always directed to this site where I can learn much information, so I decided to join.
The 122E block, was is actually casted as a 122E or a 120E?
I have 4 120E casted blocks, 2 of which the engine numbers on the right hand side start with 120E, the other two start with 122E?? so I wonder if this is where the 122E is identified and not actually by the cast number on the left hand side of block?
The engine numbers are inscribed on block in the original ford font from factory.

Regards Alistair.[/quote]
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PostPost by: vstibbard » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:20 am

I'll check the S1, a Lotus Cortina engine I have and the 26R's engines tomorrow and advise, but I can be certain that all of S2, S3 and S4 Elan's and friends Europa Special I rebuilt years again UK have had the L cast in the blocks and they had the original engines fitted.

I've also until recently stored one of the late 1500cc with L cast into block, its a 6 bolt engine and has a Ford replacement engine number, it came from a wrecked local Mk2 Cortina.

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:38 am

Battle1066 wrote:Hello, sorry to drag up an old thread, but I have the same question as Alistair below. I would have contacted him directly, but I am a new member, so don't have the ability to do that yet.

For the record, I do not own an Elan either, but just purchased a 1964 Turner MKIII which was an old SCCA race car. It have two engines and I trying to figure out exactly what I have. This has been the only place I have found any mention of the 122E possibly being stamped with the engine number, rather than cast into the block.

Mine is cast 120E, but then the engine number on the mount has 122E stamped above it. From memory the engine was cast in July 66 (so likely not original to the car), I am told by the prior owner that he believed it was either a Lotus or Cortina GT engine.

Also another odd question, my engine number has one digit that looks like an odd shaped O, more like the top half of an A, but on a slant..... any ideas on that? The number looks original with no grinder marks etc.

Thanks in advance.

Alex



Hello Gents,
What a fascinating forum - whenever I google for info on ford blocks, I'm more or less always directed to this site where I can learn much information, so I decided to join.
The 122E block, was is actually casted as a 122E or a 120E?
I have 4 120E casted blocks, 2 of which the engine numbers on the right hand side start with 120E, the other two start with 122E?? so I wonder if this is where the 122E is identified and not actually by the cast number on the left hand side of block?
The engine numbers are inscribed on block in the original ford font from factory.

Regards Alistair.
[/quote]


I have a number of Ford 1500 Cortina blocks with cast numbers 120E 6015 that also have Ford engine numbers that start with 120E stamped on the front right of the block. i have none that start with 122E in the stamped numbers or cast numbers. i have never seen a block with a casting number 122E 6015 - do they exist, has someone seen one ? or was 122E just used for a specific installation of a 120E casting number block in something other than a Cortina and only used in the engine number ?

I have seen all the other block cast numbers listed in the various web references that are general based on the following link
https://www.lotus-cortina.com/library/block/blocks.htm

but never a 122E 6015 so maybe they never came to Australia or maybe they never existed except as an engine number prefix ?

cheers
Rohan

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PostPost by: 2cams70 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 11:52 am

rgh0 wrote: i have never seen a block with a casting number 122E 6015 - do they exist, has someone seen one ? or was 122E just used for a specific installation of a 120E casting number block in something other than a Cortina and only used in the engine number ?


Yes they exist. I saw a 122E casting block advertised for sale here in Australia about 6 months ago. It was advertised as being from a Mk1 1500GT Cortina. I don't know what the difference is between it and the 120E casting. There will be a difference somewhere somehow however.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Apr 27, 2020 12:09 pm

2cams70 wrote:
rgh0 wrote: i have never seen a block with a casting number 122E 6015 - do they exist, has someone seen one ? or was 122E just used for a specific installation of a 120E casting number block in something other than a Cortina and only used in the engine number ?


Yes they exist. I saw a 122E casting block advertised for sale here in Australia about 6 months ago. It was advertised as being from a Mk1 1500GT Cortina. I don't know what the difference is between it and the 120E casting. There will be a difference somewhere somehow however.



Thanks - maybe one day i will see one in the flesh to see what differences exist, :D

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