Lotus Elan

Engine identification

PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:12 am

SJ Lambert wrote:My March 1972 build Twin Cam Escort's engine is built on a 701 M6015 A casting with the "L" in the engine mount and is a T2 example (from memory it's stamped LA on it's front too) - it's at plus 60 at the moment, tired and emotional after having done a lot of miles since it's last rebuild. It's eng # is J 23448

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I've removed the engine and box from my Escort and can add that the casting is a 701 M 6015 type, what I didn't notice whilst it was still in the engine bay is that it has an "E" stamped in after the 6015 and before the A

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I'll now begin looking out for a replacement crank to go back into this one......

Cheers

James
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PostPost by: 512BB » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:11 pm

I think you will find James, that your E is in fact a B, as BA denotes a 1600 block, or possibly a 1500 block. I had a AA block at one time, and thought I had a rare block, until I tried to sell it as such, and some worldly chap told me that I just had a 1300cc block, 10 a penny.

So it stands to reason that your block is BA, not EA, which is right for the application. And as you can see, the E has been stamped after the B has been ground off, for what reason, I have no idea.

Leslie
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PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:57 pm

G'day Leslie

I know this particular engine pretty well! The block and entire engine above is the original 1558cc Twin Cam unit as built on the 1500 block installed into my Twin Cam Escort when new. Years ago, when I bought it, it was at plus 40 in the bores, I sourced plus 60 Hepolites and had the block bored to suit.


It's crank is now at 30 and 30 and I'm now looking to replace it with another Twin Cam crank that's closer to standard journal size.

I made new valves for the cylinder head from blanks and was fairly unhappy at the depth to which the machine shop cut the seats into the head when seating them.

I'll have a think about cams to suit it that will provide a bit more power, that a standard bottom end can still handle and that will suit the head without too much mucking around.

I was once skeptical about "ground off" casting numbers, but as this thread has shown - 681F and 3020 castings are no strangers to "factory ground amendments". I'm still none the wiser as to why Ford used to do it - perhaps to identify non standard (ie non pushrod) units on the line. For instance, this engine's square front main bearing cap has never had the spiggot for the pushrod tining chain tensioner, despite having been drilled to accept it. I'm just speculating as to the factories' motivation in grinding casting ID numbers though........



Cheers

James
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PostPost by: avro » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:14 pm

Hello James,

With the letter "J" prefix to your engine number there is no doubt that this is the original cylinder block for your Escort. I have a Twin Cam Escort block back in the workshop from an earlier model (681F block) with a "J" prefix.
Its certainly true to say that many of the later 681F and 701M type blocks have had minor alterations to their casting numbers. Having bored and machined hundreds of Ford and Lotus blocks over the past 35 years I still don't have a clue to what it all means.

I have three 701M blocks that have a "G" an "E" and an "N" that have been stamped into the block in place of the ground off "B".

The first of the two photos attached show a 681F block that also carries an additional cast in letter above the block number. This block must also be one of the very last of its type before the introduction of the 701M as it has factory fitted square main caps.(quite rare)

The second photo is that of a very rare 701M block that has "COSWORTH" cast into the side. I purchased this some years ago and have not seen or heard of one since.
I was also somewhat suprised to find that it was on an 81mm bore size and had not been linered. The witness marks of the gasket on the front face had shown it to have been used for either a pushrod engine or for a BDA.

Kind regards

Nick Stagg
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1st feb 755.jpg and
1st feb 757.jpg and
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PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:54 am

SJ Lambert wrote:
This 681F 6015 G NA block from a Twin Cam Escort ......
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G'day Nick

I was lucky enough to get hold off a second complete Escort Twin Cam engine recently on a 681 Block - stamped in with a G - I have no idea why they're stamped either - carbs to winged sump - (pics of block from a page or two back on this thread) it's engine number is J22130 - it's been linered but may yet prove to be a reasonable back up unit.

I may baffle one of the winged sumps now that I've got a spare.

That 701 "Cosworth" cast block must be a thing of absolute rarity!!! Very impressive!!!

Cheers

James
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PostPost by: SJ Lambert » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:38 am

Added my first 116E block to the collection recently, cast 7 June 1963.
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PostPost by: Amentia » Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:03 am

Hi,

I recentlyaquired this engine and I have no idea what I'm dealing with. Could anybody tell me what it is? and what it's worth? I am planning on selling this, and a large amount of other lotus parts.

Thanks in advance,

James

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PostPost by: types26/36 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:59 pm

3020E is Fords designation for a MK2 Cortina Lotus, I believe Lotus ground off the Ford casting and over stamped it with the 3020E.
As your engine is a four bolt crank I think it would have been a 120E block originally although I thought by the time the MK2 Cortina Lotus was introduced they were using the 681F block with a six bolt crank but I could be wrong there, also bits get changed around over the years.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:44 pm

Yes it looks like a 681F block as it has the press in oil pick up. Strange that it has the 4 bolt crank internals but after almost 50 years anything is possible in terms of parts being swapped between engines. It is also possible in usual Lotus practice that they had some bits left over during the change over from 120E four bolt crank bloocks to 681F 6 bolt crank blocks and some hybrids happened and this is one of them.

cheers
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PostPost by: Amentia » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:00 am

types26/36 wrote:3020E is Fords designation for a MK2 Cortina Lotus, I believe Lotus ground off the Ford casting and over stamped it with the 3020E.
As your engine is a four bolt crank I think it would have been a 120E block originally although I thought by the time the MK2 Cortina Lotus was introduced they were using the 681F block with a six bolt crank but I could be wrong there, also bits get changed around over the years.


rgh0 wrote:Yes it looks like a 681F block as it has the press in oil pick up. Strange that it has the 4 bolt crank internals but after almost 50 years anything is possible in terms of parts being swapped between engines. It is also possible in usual Lotus practice that they had some bits left over during the change over from 120E four bolt crank bloocks to 681F 6 bolt crank blocks and some hybrids happened and this is one of them.


Thanks guys, Could you suggest a price for the block, sold as in the photos with crank and pistons?

I would like to put it up on ebay today :)
Last edited by Amentia on Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:32 am

Sorry but really don't know the price of a block like this in the UK. In Australia maybe A$500 to A$700 assuming it does not have a lot of corrosion and is not over-bored excessively and otherwise in good usable condition. Maybe the Lotus Cortina guys pay more for an original block given what these cars get these days :D

Crank and pistons worth nothing much ( IMHO as I would throw away if building an engine), its the block itself that's worth something.

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: Aly » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:10 am

rgh0 wrote:Hi James

My guess is one 116E block to about twenty 120E blocks - based on my sampling. I to have just one 116E block in my collection currently.

Never seen a 122E block either

cheers
Rohan


Hello Gents,
What a fascinating forum - whenever I google for info on ford blocks, I'm more or less always directed to this site where I can learn much information, so I decided to join.
The 122E block, was is actually casted as a 122E or a 120E?
I have 4 120E casted blocks, 2 of which the engine numbers on the right hand side start with 120E, the other two start with 122E?? so I wonder if this is where the 122E is identified and not actually by the cast number on the left hand side of block?
The engine numbers are inscribed on block in the original ford font from factory.

Regards Alistair.
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PostPost by: 512BB » Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:49 am

Good morning all,

Can someone more clever than I post up the pictures from this Ebay listing before they disappear, 261796068626

One of those rare items, a 120E L block. Seller obviously received an offer to sell off Ebay in excess of ?300. Seller states that block was at 85.6mm already, so not sure what the buyer was going to do with it, reliner?

Leslie

Thanks for obliging Paddy
Last edited by 512BB on Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: paddy » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:26 am

See below.

Paddy
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120-6.JPG and
120-5.JPG and
120-4.JPG and
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120-2.JPG and
120-1.JPG and
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PostPost by: promotor » Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:38 am

All those details point towards that 120e L block being an FVA block - 85.6mm bore and the big drilling on the engine mount for the oil way.
I always thought that the point of that drilling on the engine mount is to route the oil from one side of the engine to the other where the cross drilling between cylinder 2 and 3 isn't present (this drilling is a fracture point on high-revving engines such as the FVA) so I'm not sure on what was going off here. Perhaps the cross drilling plug is a red-herring if there isn't actually a drilling behind it! Or maybe all were like that.

So who knows what this is but it is a rare block indeed whatever it turns out to be!
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