Handling and Engine Set Up

[Bahamayellow]

I am reasonably new to the world of Lotus Elans but bought a very tatty S4 last year from Paul Mattys which I absolutley loved and got me hooked on the marque. The engine was a bit tired and smoky and rather than go through a restoration and engine build I traded the car in for the model I have always wanted - a 1971 Sprint.

The S4 handled beautifully and from what I know it was a very standard set up, it also went like a scalded cat although it chucked out more oil than I could put in. The engine was home built it didn't like travelling much below 2,000rpm but above that it took off- so I am figuring that it had some wild cams in it.

The Sprint in comparison is very mild and handles like a dog. I used to carry out a lot of maintenance work on my 64 Cooper 'S' but I am afraid work these days does not spare me much time to work on the cars therefore I am seeking advice in relation to which company fellow Elan owners would point me in in relation to Handling/suspension set up. I have heard that Spyder do offer a suspension/handling check- are they worth looking at or does anyone have any other reccomendations.

The first thing I intend to do is change the tyres - the current tyres are Goodyear 155x13s and the sidewalls seem to be very soft in all the pressure settings I tried. I am going for the Michelin XAS FF 155s through various reccomendations on this site.

Also can anyone recommend a good engine tuner/rolling road? I live in Staffordshire and work in the West Midlands so anywhere around there but would travel if someone was highly reccomended.

[Elanintheforest]

Hello Mr Bahama
The handling of all Elans, S1 through to Sprint, is much the same and is just stunning in standard form for road use. If your car is handling like a dog it must be bad!

The suspension and steering is simple to sort out and not expensive. The problems are usually down to worn wishbone bushes, bent wishbones, worn trunions, worn steering rack / track rod ends, worn shocks or, the easiest one to sort out, the previous owner. Unfortunately the Elan has always been subjected to many ?improvements? by enthusiastic owners who often muck it up. One such improvement is to whack a set of adjustable shocks and heavy springs on a car, set it all up to the stiffest setting which renders a previously tired car un-drivable. Put on a set of polybushes for increased discomfort that will make absolutely no difference to the handling on the road.

I would strongly suggest that if you want to use the car just as a road car, just overhaul the steering and suspension to original specification. Paul Matty can do that for you. If you want to do some serious track work, then it will need to be stiffened up with adjustable bits and polybushed suspension, and of course, Paul can do that as well.

The standard set up with adjustable Koni shocks on the softest setting, and with the XAS tyres on standard rims, is perfection for a road car?.but I?m sure that others will have different opinions.

By the way, I had a ?64 Cooper S many moons ago?a 970. Of course I didn?t realise just how rare it was at the time, and was very pleased to sell it for ?170. One sold a few months back for ?20k. Damn!!

Mark

[stuartgb100]

For suspension/handling issues, I would recommend Pat Thomas at Kelvedon Motors

Regards,
Stuart.

[alan]

hi Mark,
you have my sentiments as i had a 1964 1071cc Austin Cooper S and sold it for about the same price as you, to buy a Lotus Cortina Twincam. That's the way things go
AlanB

[Bruce Crowthorne]

Remember to buy 4 XASs and not 5!
The tyre is too big to fit in the spare wheel well!
By the way I have a spare ...
Bruce

[Bahamayellow]

Thanks chaps. I bought the car off Paul and he was very helpful with a very bad misfire on right hand corners Bizzare or so it seemed he went through the car and tried a different set of webers with no change. He then out of desperation (they had the car for 3 weeks) tried a set of Dellortos that where off another car and hey presto misfire cured and the car runs smoothly. The car runs quite rich so am looking to get it tuned soon. May use Aldon as they do a reasonable job on the minis but not sure whether they are good with webers/dellortos?

I think the problem with the handling must be the tyres as Paul Matty put on a set of the TTR rear shocks on and the past owner also spent a fortune in replacing various bits around the car including replacing the doghnuts for the TTR solid drive. He also had a full engine re-build carried out at Pauls but from what I can gather drove it very sedately so perhaps never really tested the handling and questioned it. There has been a new passenger side A frame replaced quite recently so once I change the tyres will get the alignment, track and toe in checked.

Just one other thing and sorry to go on but this car also overheats quite quickly in traffic whereas the previous car was fine with the standard radiator. I noticed though that the S4 I had did have two holes in the passenger side inner wing covered with gauze where this one does not although they look like they have been glassed over as the electronic ignition relays sit where they would have been. If I am in trafiic I tend to open the lid which cools the car down as the heat doesn't seem to have anywhere to disperse when its not moving quickly. Has anyone else come across this.

My Cooper 'S' is a 1071 and no Mark you shouldn't have sold the 970 they are as rare as rocking horse s**t. I attach a copy of my Sprint and Cooper S





Hope I don't upset anyone by putting a photo of a Cooper on the forum.

[cabc26b]

Mark ( & Mike) .

On the comment

One such improvement is to whack a set of adjustable shocks and heavy springs on a car, set it all up to the stiffest setting which renders a previously tired car un-drivable. Put on a set of polybushes for increased discomfort that will make absolutely no difference to the handling on the road.

This is debatable - I have driven stock, slight upgrade and full race suspended cars. I have not know these cars to be "undriveable". If the components are in good order and the wheels are pointed in the right direction they handle great on 4 or 3 wheels, not so predicable on 2 wheels though .


George


PS Un-driveable for a lotus should only be applied to the 17 with the original strut front suspension .....

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

"a very bad misfire on right hand corners Bizzare or so it seemed he went through the car and tried a different set of webers with no change. He then out of desperation (they had the car for 3 weeks) tried a set of Dellortos that where off another car and hey presto misfire cured and the car runs smoothly. The car runs quite rich so am looking to get it tuned soon"

That makes amazing reading, it sounds more like "Fred the Shed" rather than a reputable Lotus Dealer.
Truly unbelievable!
(Did they check the Float levels?)

Ref. your Cooling problems, yes those two Holes in the inner Wing do play an important role; some people even duplicate them on the opposite side.
That doesn't imply that the lack of them is the cause of your problem.
It is possible that once the Engine is really running properly that your cooling problem could disappear.
My recommendation is to get the Engine sorted before you go chasing the Cooling problem.

Sorry to read your tale of woe.
Good luck.
John

[types26/36]

Hope I don't upset anyone by putting a photo of a Cooper on the forum.

I doubt anyone would object, probably a lot on the forum have fond memories and appreciate the Mini as an icon, I had a 970 S myself back in the 60's (among other Mini's) and also sold it for peanuts (it was damaged though ........if only we knew then.......
Hope you get sorted with the Elan

[Elanintheforest]

George, the un-drivable reference was a relative term...maybe unpleasant to drive would be better! However, I have driven an Elan that was so stiff that it really was quite dangerous to drive as it took off on the slightest bump in the road, and if that was on a corner, it skipped sideways quite alarmingly. I used to race in Modsports where the suspension was wound up about as high as it could be, which was fine on a smooth track and for 10 minutes, but it wasn't a very pleasant driving experience, especially for the spine.

That experience made me realise just how smart the guys at Lotus were at developing the right balance for a road car, and they knew a lot more about suspension than I ever will!

I think that my main point is that at fast road speeds, the standard set up with good tyres is just about the perfect balance of handling and comfort / fun. You would certainly need to get rid of the soft bushes and compliant suspension for doing any serious track work, but the more you do in that area, the less attractive becomes the road car experience. It depends what the car is being used for, and the percentage of time on the road / on the track, and how serious you are about posting the best lap times possible. But stiffening up or lowering the car just for the sake of throwing a few race goodies at it is just a complete waste of cash resulting in a car that will be less fun to drive on the road and will stay in the garage.

Alan, I sold my 970 S to buy a Lotus Cortina as well, then sold that to buy my S3 Coupe in 1975 which I still have. I spent two years in the 6th form restoring that S, resulting in a very nice car, but also resulting in an additional year at school doing re-sits rather than rubbing down paintwork!

I still get a hankering for an S every time I see The Italian Job, but then I look at the scar tissue on my hands and remember working on the little sods?Elans are so much easier to work on and have fewer sharp bits to lacerate your hands.

Mike, both the Sprint and the S look gorgeous. It?s quite rare to see an S4 or Sprint in Bahama Yellow now, as it was a colour that went out of ?fashion? very quickly resulting in many more Gold Leaf Sprints being born. I saw a couple of Bahama Yellow cars at a recent Castle Coombe meeting, and they really stood out from the sea of red over white, and looked stunning.


Mark

[elansprint71]

My Sprint came shod with Goodyear Grand Prix S ("you know it makes sense"), and it was an absolute PIG, in the wet it was like a PIG ON A SKATEBOARD. Unbelievable.

Stuck some Firestones on and it became everything we expect. I would change the tyres before spending on bits which may not be necessary.

We have a Mini in the Garage alongside the Elan- post as many photos as you want!

[ivor badger]

I am starting down this route having just got a S4 and rather than start a new thread, I shall add my questions on here.

The car has adjustable spring seat Spax on the front. It was set at the lowest height and appears really stiff. It was so low, that the car had a noticeable nose down attitude. It was very jumpy with trailing throttle oversteer into corners, which disappeared immediately with the application of power. On hitting a bump it felt as though riding on the bump stops
I raised it today and backed off the shocks fully. Much better, but still seems to have limited front suspension movement compared to the rear.

What should the front ride height be and how stiff should the car be? What is the front and rear wheel alinement?

Where exactly should you jack the car?

Where should the exhaust run, is it supposed to be above the lower edge of the chassis?

[Bahamayellow]

My Sprint came shod with Goodyear Grand Prix S ("you know it makes sense"), and it was an absolute PIG, in the wet it was like a PIG ON A SKATEBOARD. Unbelievable.

Stuck some Firestones on and it became everything we expect. I would change the tyres before spending on bits which may not be necessary.

We have a Mini in the Garage alongside the Elan- post as many photos as you want!

Pete a Pig on a skateboard is a good definition for these tyres.

[ivor badger]

Next bit of the handling saga. I was going to raise the front more today, but it was too wet and cold. So I thought, I'll just set the front track for the weekend. It was only just on the scale of the trammels, toed in. So set it in the correct band, but not being super critical. What a difference, steering is correctly weighted and no longer jumps and wanders all over the road, even feels safe going round a corner. So now the next bit is raise it fully to correct height and set the track on the mid point setting. Is it worth going to one end or other on the tolerance of toed in 1/16" to 3/16"?

Moral of story, just use factory settings.

[rgh0]

Personally i find up towards the 3/16th end gives better stability under heavy braking with sticky tyres

cheers
Rohan