Engine Numbers enquiry

[tpa49f]

Hiya all, i have just recieved all the history the DVLA can find on my plus2, not surprisingly ive had an engine change, appears im on the original chassis dont quite believe it but????? and once it was white, then yellow, now red.
My question is about engine numbers, we started with LP10574LBA but now we have E17698B it looks like a twin cam and has lotus cast in the cam cover but do the numbers tell a story, im on a quest, now off to find a famous name from the other 7 owners. all help appreciated thanks.

[JJDraper]

'Chassis' number resides with the body, not the steel 'sub-assembly' that we usually call a chassis! This is made clear by a the Lotus factory if the DVLA ask. You may have had several chassis (steel sub assembly) changes, but the chassis number on your log book should remain the same. The true identity of the car resides with the body, not the steel chassis. Many owners in less enlightened times would dutifully tell the licensing people that they have changed the chassis and give a new number from the steel chassis (if a Spyder chassis, that would be SPY####). This is incorrect and can lead to complications (I know from experience), but can be put right with persistance with the DVLA. Engine changes were/are common - a true Lotus engine should have a large (~2inch) capital 'L' cast between the engine mounting lugs on the distributor side of the motor (obscured by the engine mount). If not, it is not a Lotus block - not the end of the world, but thats the way it is. Your original engine number suggests an early +2, Chassis number 50/217, build date 18th December 1967. Does your reg document support this?

Lots more detective work to do!

Jeremy

[paddy]

a true Lotus engine should have a large (~2inch) capital 'L' cast between the engine mounting lugs on the distributor side of the motor (obscured by the engine mount). If not, it is not a Lotus block

This isn't quite true - the earlier Lotus engines (all "rope-seal" engines and the early "lip-seal" engines) did not have the "L". They were the same blocks as came from Ford's mainstream production line, athough selected for Lotus based on production tolerances. Later, the blocks changed to the 681F block, and then then 701M block, part way during the S3 and early +2 production. These 681F and 701M were the ones with the L.

So if it doesn't have the L it might be an original early Lotus engine, or a later non-Lotus block.

Paddy

[tpa49f]

thanks for all that info so far, my +2 was registered 1/1/68 which supports the engine build date in december, where do you guys get this in depth info from? I am missing all the data between 1968 and 1977, my wife suggested the first owner bought a kit in 68 then took 10 years to build it, could she be right, surely not. Could the missing DVLA data be because in Mar 77 they bought some computers and left the rest of us on microfiche? ugh!
who knows? Heeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllppppppppppppppppppppp, i can't afford to turn it white again,
karl

[tpa49f]

oh forgot to confirm thats my chassis number, 217, sold in essex spent its life in leicester notingham and lincolnshire with a short sabatical in wales, anyone ever seen TPA 49F in white, yellow or red ttfn karl

[JJDraper]

Just to clarify, the date I gave is the car's build date, not the engine. Its unlikely that it was supplied as a kit. You can get more info from the Factory archivist, such as who (which dealer or individual) the car was supplied to. I can't remember who the current archivist is, but a quick search on this web site will supply the info.

Congrats on owning an early car, no 217 off the production line!

Jeremy

[Jason1]

Check Gary's post.

business-listings-f3/lotus-historian-andy-graham-t19259.html

Send a letter saying you own this car (give as much detail as you can) and you would like to know what information they hold on it in their archive, you will get a nice letter or email back with what they have.

Jason

[paddy]

So since this is a very early +2, its original engine probably wasn't an L.

Paddy

[richardcox_lotus]

Sorry Paddy, I disagree. Twincams had been made for approx 5 years by the time the +2 came along. Good luck with the archive research - let us know what you find !

Richard

[paddy]

I'm happy to be proved wrong, of course. I'm going from Robinshaw and Ross (the plus 2 book), p155, figure 32. It says that early plus 2s had earlier blocks, Ford casting number 3020-6015, with no "L".

I'm sure there are some owners here who can put us right

Paddy

[tpa49f]

Dear all, got in touch with Andy at lotus, very quick response, published below,


'Thank you for your enquiry regarding your Lotus Elan +2. I can confirm that engine number LP10574LBA is the original engine number. The car left Lotus on the 18th December 1967. The first owner is R.W. Stroud.

This is all that I have left on file.'

Unfortunately not a great deal of information, confirms one or two things but raises more questions, how do Lotus know who the first owner was surely that information would be dealer specific and registration would be with the dvla, unless they sold it direct. I dont know, but RW Stroud is not on the copies of registration documents of previous owners i have from the dvla, so a bit stuck, will try the dvla again try to talk to someone, maybe there is microfiche i can go and look at.
Can anyone recommend any books or sites that relate to lotus history, dealerships etc to improve my chances of clearing this all up. thanks

[trw99]

TPA 49F

Your car was first registered in Guildford, which means it may well have come from the Bell & Colvill dealership. Since they are still around and still Lotus dealers, it may be worth asking if they have any records.

The factory know to whom a car went because it was on the invoice and sales sheet. I have details of several Sprints where the the first owner's name as well as the dealer are on the paperwork. Furthermore registration was not directly with the DVLA (not that it was called that in 1968). Dealers would be regularly allocated a batch of registration numbers by the local licensing office (usually located in or near the county council offices) for them to register a new car as it came in from the factory.

You probably will not get much information out of the DVLA since 1977 was the cut off date they imposed when they became computerised. Their readily accessible records thus only go back as far as 1977.

Tim

[tpa49f]

Tim thanks very much, its little golden nuggets of information like that, that really help, im off on the audit trail again, cheers

[tpa49f]

Followed Tims advice and got in touch with the Dealership, Bell & Colvill in Guildford, i managed to confuse a few people but got put through to the service department initially, finally though without asking, Martin Colvill the man himself came on the phone and began to answer some questions,after a few minutes he said hang on a minute and promptly found his sales ledger for 1967 and 1968, Awsome, proceeded to tell me how he sold 4 cars in 66, 21 in 67 and 41 in 68, then he realised he hadn't referenced the sales to a chassis number or registration mark but there was a NAME!!! I had a name, from Lotus, an RW Stroud but guess what he never sold one to that name. the largest dealer didnt sell my car.....gutted. So who did then, well Martin mentioned Coomes a Jaguar specialist who dabbled in the odd Lotus, but has long since packed his bags and is now retired on a beach in Monaco as i found out. Martin did tell me that most of the early plus 2 were sold in kit form usually through dealers but it wasnt unheard of for lotus to sell via the back door every now and again. Kits as it turns out means a complete car with engine and gearbox on a pallet along with the four corners. My advice from Martin was to get back in touch with Andy at Lotus to see if its possble to dig deeper..... take some booze and lubricate the archive to give up its secrets. He mentioned what sounded like a very good book, title unknown, but something to do with the Elan, written by John Bolster, questionable spelling, anyone ever heard of it. Anyway i may not be making much progress but having some fun none the less, all advice greatfully recieved. Cheers all.

[Elanintheforest]

You?re doing some good sleuthing work, Karl!

The ?kit? sale sound very likely, as many of the early Plus 2 cars were sold that way. It wasn?t a kit as we know it today, but fully built up, with the engine & box, suspension and seats to put in. I bought one of my Plus 2 cars from the original owner, who bought it as a kit in early 1968. Lotus records have the sale recorded against his name. The kit was delivered on a Thursday, and he drove it to the pub three days later for Sunday lunch, so not a huge amount of work required, but a huge cost saving (avoiding purchase tax).

The best book on the Elan and Plus 2 from a historical perspective is ?Authentic Lotus Elan & Plus 2' by Ross and Robinshaw. Often on eBay as it?s now out of print.

Mark