Starter motor was just working now isn't

[handi_andi]

Have taken your advice Gene and stripped starter down, everything in it appears to be in one piece and brushes appear to be within range. Was a smell of burnt stuff when I stripped it and it had alot of gunk in it, so have cleaned it up and once the parafin has evaporated I think I will try and do a continuity test on it, and if all is well, reassemble then try out with a car battery. Just when I thought starting the old girl was going to be an easy job! As if there is such a thing on a lotus!
Thanks one and all
Andy

[handi_andi]

Ian
I was getting sparks from the terminal as I connected the jump lead as though the whole thing was shorting out. I padily disconnected each time as by recogning it should have spun up immediately on connection. Strange thing is that on stripping it I have found no damage but does smell like there has been shorts etc. Once it is dry I am going to try and go through the tests in the workshop manual to see if it is still in one piece. Tis turning into a bit of a mystery.
Thanks
Andy

[oldokie]

Burnt smells are not a good sign, I'm afraid you might have some shorted windings.

[handi_andi]

Just checked the continuity and the field windings are fine, however, the armature segements seem to all be connected to each other electrically. Can't think that this can be correct, can anyone shed any light? If not meant to be the case then ebay here i come LOL
Andy

[types26/36]

the armature segements seem to all be connected to each other electrically. Can't think that this can be correct, li

Have a close look at the end of the segments, does it look as though the solder has melted? if so it has "thrown its solder"

[tower of strength]

if the starter has jammed, i find it easiest to unjam it by rocking the car backwards and forwards in 4th gear, usually lets go with a twang! As for not being able to see the ring gear, use a mirror, or feel it with your hand, if the teeth are chewed up, have a brew, then hunt for some unsuspecting fools, i mean friends to help you get the engine out! Make sure the crane/block and tackle set up has sufficient lift to clear the nose of the car.
good luck

Mark

[handi_andi]

Well it is a mystery, there doesn't appear to be any appreciable damage but it definently seems to be totally shorted out. Guess it is time to buy another, unless anyone can see something I have missed.
Thanks
Andy

[SADLOTUS]

I've had stuff/rubbish/oilybits gumming up the grooves of the commutator and cleaned them with meths and a scalpel.

A Mini starter is the same....I believe..... check how many teeth you have tho'.

Just revised this for those who think their eyes are playing tricks!

[AussieJohn]

Are tou sure it wasnt just arcing when you connected the battery, a starter will draw a lot of current [200amps ] until it starts to turn, a mini pinion has 10 teeth but the Lotus has 9; I am willing to be corrected! good luck, John.

[handi_andi]

Having just been checking out suppliers and having just brought a recon unit with garauntee, I can provide an answer which is that you are both right. Up to 1980 mini starters were the same unit along with:

FORD CORTINA MK1 (63-69) 1300 65-69 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
FORD CORTINA MK1 (63-69) 1600 65-69 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
FORD ESCORT MK1 (69-75) 1600 Twin Cam 72-75 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
LOTUS ELAN 1600 70-73 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
LOTUS SEVEN 1300 71-72 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP MAXI 1500 69-82 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP MINI 1000 69-80 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP MINI 1275 69-80 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP (AUSTIN) 1100 1100 Inc MG 65-74 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP (AUSTIN) 1300 1300 Inc MG 69-79 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP (AUSTIN) ALLEGRO 1100 Man 73-80 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP (AUSTIN) ALLEGRO 1300 Man 73-80 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP (AUSTIN) ALLEGRO 1500 69-80 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
ROVER GROUP LCV MINI 850 69-80 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
TALBOT GROUP IMP 875 69-75 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
TALBOT GROUP IMP 875 70-75 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
TALBOT LCV IMP 875 69-70 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
VAUXHALL VIVA 1200 68-70 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
VAUXHALL VIVA 1300 68-70 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
VAUXHALL/BEDFORD LCV VIVA 1200 69-70 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type
VAUXHALL/BEDFORD LCV VIVA 1300 69-70 9T,2 Plain Holes,Inertia Type

In 1980 it appears Rover Group changed over to a three bolt type of arrangement.

Thanks to everyone, looks liek this is the first part of the lotus i ahve every binned

Andy

[Lincoln62]

It is a common starter, the same as a Mini. Cortine/Escort (crossflow) starter will fit if you cut off the third mounting lug. I have a cut down Ecsort starter in my Elan at the moment. Peter 66S2

[Otto]

Maybe a stupid qestion, but are you bypassing the solenoid when you test the starter?
I have had solenoid problems...it clicked but didnt cary enough current
Regards
Otto

[ppnelan]

If you need to remove the pinion, it is an easy job once you have the correct tool for job - see eBay item no. 130134273113 (this is a high quality version; you should get a perfectly adequate one for about ?5). It eliminates the need for a suit of armour to protect against flying metal parts...

Matthew

[handi_andi]

I tested the starter using a pair of jump leads staright off the battery which was disconnected at the time. I left the parts ont he ktichen table overnight and the smell of burnt insulation is quite pungent. So although there is no visible damage there does apepar to have been some sort of catastrophic loss of insulation within the main body fo the armature given that all of the armature contacts are continuity between them. Have managed to get hold fo a refurbished unit off ebay, which will hopefulyl be here tomorrow and it is a liek for like swap. If the weather is good enough tomorrow night then I plan to put a light and video camera under the car whilst I turn over engine with a ratchet and socket to try and get a video survey of the ring gear to check for damage. There doesn't appear to be any damage on the teeth of the starter, the engine is turning over ok by hand, and the starter would turn over by hand once it was removed from the car, so why the whole thign was locked solid is a bit of a mystery. As if the ring gear was damaged I would have though the pinion woudl ahve been damaged on starter, or am I missing something?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.

Andy

[ppnelan]

I have found numerous reasons for pinions & ring gears jamming:-
1. Wrong number of teeth on either or both.
2. Starter motor bolts working loose so alignment is lost. In my experience, this is common! Not helped by a distorted engine to bellhousing plate.
3. Wear in starter motor bush means pinion can move away from gear - they are often marginal on engagement anyway so this can cause jumping/jamming.
4. Damaged/repaired bellhousing mounting holes or starter lugs may cause loss of alignment as the spigot on the motor end isn't a very close fit in the engine to bellhousing plate.
5. Wear in pinion and/or ring gear teeth.
I'm sure there are others I've yet to experience....

Problems often start with 2. and 3. and can escalate to destroy most components if not attended to. It is worse on the 5-speed +2 with a weaker aluminium bellhousing that is prone to stripped threads & cracks.
Best to sort things out as soon as starter problems occur - they never 'heal up' by themselves

Matthew