Starter motor was just working now isn't

[handi_andi]

Hiya
I just tried to start my elan plus 2 having installed another earthing strap in the boot which made a world of difference as she made several attempts to start but couldn't sustain running. However, I tied again and the starter motor wasn't turnign engine over smoothly and started to jerk car. Now although the starter solenoid is clicking over, there is no attempt by the starter motor to turn engine over, any ideas? Please
Thanks
Andy

[handi_andi]

Have just removed spark plugs and can not turn engine over with socket on front pulley.
Andy

[SADLOTUS]

I assume car's in neutral and was running ok and battery's good.

If you take out the starter and try to turn the motor over by hand - plugs out - you'll know if it's the starter or the engine. Also have a chance to bench test starter motor if you've been having trouble with that. If engine still wont turn over in neutral... It is neutral and you're not trying to turn the engine over in gear and drive it up the driveway? is there any movement at all on the socket? 1/8th turn either way? After that sounds like cam cover off and a look inside. do both cams turn with the chain? If the starter tests ok and engine turns over ok - look at ring gear. try to follow the problem and eliminate causes one by one.

Come on chaps help me out...

[MintSprint]

Assuming it's out of gear, that doesn't sound good!

First things I'd do would be to remove the starter motor (only a couple of bolts, so quite easy) and the cam cover (to check that the timing chain is still intact and thart there aren't any immediately obvious problems with the valve gear) then try to turn it over by hand again. If it still won't budge, it looks like you might have serious internal problems and it would be time to start thinking about removing the cylinder head to see what's going on.

[SADLOTUS]

er... snap!!

[handi_andi]

Yes it is def in neutral. It was solid enough when trying to turn over with socket that the pulley bolt started to undo!

Ok then, where is the starter and how do I get to it?

Thanks

Andy

[MintSprint]

It's basically underneath the carbs. You'll need to support the car on axle stands to get at it from underneath. You'll need a long socket (1/2" if I remember correctly) and extension, with a ratchet, rather than spanners.

Disconnect the battery, first (or at least the thick cable that runs down from the solenoid to the starter motor), otherwise you can touch the live cable by accident and bridge it to earth with your tools, which at best causes lots of sparks and scares the living daylights out of you, and at worst can cause a nasty burn.

[AussieJohn]

Could be the starter pinion stuck in the ring gear, if the starter has a square bit of shaft out the back of the case just try turning this with a spanner, much easier than unbolting anything. John.

[MintSprint]

Could be the starter pinion stuck in the ring gear, if the starter has a square bit of shaft out the back of the case just try turning this with a spanner, much easier than unbolting anything. John.

You can try this, certainly (though removing the starter motor will free the pinion, anyway, and will give you the added peace of mind of being able to bench test the starter off the engine), but to be honest whilst a jammed pinion will prevent the starter motor from turning the engine, it won't stop the engine turning the starter motor, if you see what I mean... if you turn the engine by hand with a jammed pinion, it will just turn the starter motor over as well.

Forgive me for making assumptions, but from some of your questions I'm guessing that you're fairly new to these sort of mechanical issues, Andi?

Even with the spark plugs out, it takes a reasonable amount of effort to turn over an engine, 'cos you're forcing the cams to open and close valves against the resistance of some fairly stiff valve springs. You shouldn't force things to the point where you might be bending valves, but it will still ake a fair amount of strength with a long extension bar to turn the engine over on the crankshaft pulley.

It helps to remove the cam cover, so that you can see the cams and valves operating and judge whether there is anything jamming the valvetrain at the top end of the engine. You will also be able to see that the peaks in resistance come when the lobes of the camshafts are pushing valves full open.

If there's anything wrong with tthe bottom end of the engine (crankshaft/rods) serious enough to lock it solid, you're looking at engine out and a full ebuild, anyway, so realistically there's not much that you can do to the bottom end that will make things worse!

Edited to add:
If you do want to to try turning the starter motor on the engine to check for a jammed pinion, you might find that the square end of the shaft has a plastic cap over it. Most don't - they tend to get lost over the years - but if it does, it simply pulls off.

I still think that if you've gone so far as crawling underneath the car, though, you might as well simply remove the starter motor altogether, so that you can bench test it, lube the inertia mechanism and check the condition of the pinion. You can also check the condition of the ring gear on the flywheel by shining a torch through the hole where the starter motor was fitted, once you have taken it off.

[handi_andi]

Hiya
Normally my engine turns over reasonable easily with spark plugs out with a standard ratchet, however it won't this time. I have just managed to extract the bolts to the starter but it won't come out, so think it must be jammed in some sort of way, just about to try levering it out gently.

Surprisingly enough Aussie John I am not new to things mechanically but a lotus elan is something else when compares to my series of series landrovers, range rover, landrover discovery, and triumph spitfire I have previously owned. I suspected a jammed starter motor when it happened which is why I tried turning the engine over by hand with spark plugs out to try and free it, however, when found engine completely jammed decided to proceed with due caution and seek advice first.

Thanks for all the help guys

Andy

[MintSprint]

That's good news, then - relatively speaking!

The starter should just fall out in your hand once it has been unbolted, so if it's jammed in place you have found the source of your problem! Just hope your ring gear and pinion aren;t too badly mangled!

Sorry for casting doubt on your experience ('twas me, not Aussies John casting aspersions!) - it was the query about where to find the starter motor that threw me!

[SADLOTUS]

I was in the garage anyway......


'hope it's nothing serious



hhmmm ... too slow in posting wasn't I.

[handi_andi]

Thanks guys, the starter is out and tried to spin it over on the battery and out of 5 attempts only once did it turn over before stopping suddenly again, other times just got sparks from the contacts. Have turned the engine over with a ratchet and it is turning as normal, so am hopeful all is there ok.

As for the where is the starter question, when I looked in from the top and tried to trace cable I couldn't find it, and for some reason when i looked underneath I thought it would be pointing towards the rear, have no idea why LOL The workshop manual wasn't much help in giving pointers and I am being ably assisted by a 2year old daughter hence was simpler to ask. And as the old saying goes, a lotus is something else!

I can not easily see the ring gear so I am going to have to trust to luck on that one.

Also given the continued discussion on the forum about other types of starters I think I will see if I can find someone in Aberdeen to recon this one for me. Anyone got any suggestions?

[oldokie]

Rebuilds on starters are simple if you're just renewing the brushes and/or bearings, the pinions, however, are a bit of work.

[elansprint]

Andi when you say you get sparks from the contacts do you mean the +ve terminal on the back or the brushes i have seen the +ve contact shorted to the case when tightened too much or damaged cable connector giving a dead short
Ian