Strange engine problems

[twincamman]

replace the condenser

[Chancer]

Its one thing for one person to speculate when reflecting on why something doesnt work but when that is put up on a forum and many others do so it can get a bit out of hand.

Whilst I dont fault the logic instead of predicting the worse isnt it better to concentrate on the one known fault and to rule out the possibility of broken/slipped jackshaft? All it takes is to remove the top of the pump and see if the diaphragm goes up and down, or am I posting this from a parallel universe?

And as for buying a 3rd fuel pump, - give me strength

You dont need to trailer the car to Paul Matty to see if the pump arm goes up and down.

[twincamman]

Well if to wont fire on " start ya bastard"then it's electrical ....I'm beginning to think some one is having us on ..ed

[billwill]

Is the ignition timing REALLY altering?

All we have so far (as far as I can tell) Is that the OP thought it was changing because the arm was in the wrong place AFTER lifting out the distributor! But he had not taken into account that the gearwheel on the end of the distie shaft always rotates as the helical gear meshes when you remove or insert the distie.

[twincamman]

I think he's sitting back having a chuckle at us ......he has done nothing suggested

[wotsisname]

Can you put your finger in and feel the jackshaft lobe while someone hand cranks the engine ?

[Spyder fan]

Can you put your finger in and feel the jackshaft lobe while someone hand cranks the engine ?

I think a little light relief is required for this topic, although I must point out that the HSE might be interested to know of your suggested working practice

[Heuer]

Actually I can see the jack shaft lobe turning when the pump is out (was not sure if I should stick my finger in there!) which confuses me no end. I wonder if the pressure of the pump lever against the jack shaft is having an effect?

In answer to some of the other questions - the condenser has been changed; I have attached a clear tube to the carb end fuel pipe and can easily suck fuel from the tank with no bubbles appearing. With the pump on the car and inlet/outlet disconnected I can feel no suction or pressure.

I also seem to have credibility issues with some of you. I own two E-Type's and I am the Administrator for the E-Type Forum (http://forum.etypeuk.com/index.php) and Mark (Elan in the Forest) is one of my Moderators. It was Mark who encouraged me to buy an Elan and guided me to CUU 4H, the ex David Adkins S4 restored by Peter Day between 1990 and 1995. Some here might profit by visiting the E-Type Forum - we ensure it is a very friendly, constructive and helpful community and regularly get complimented as such.

[billwill]

Sorry if we carped, David.

Ed's comments are ofen caustic, we long termers have got used to him. Perhaps he has been over Niagara Falls in a barrel too often.

[david.g.chapman]

Here's my tuppence (two cents) worth,

On my +2 engine I get a surge of fuel out of the fuel line when disconnected from the engine and while cranking on every revolution. This is with a mechanical pump. If you do not get this then either the pump is not working or it is sucking air as already mentioned.

So I would fix this before anything else. Check for air leaks from the tank to the engine. Inspect the fuel line carefully. If that looks OK take the mechanical pump out while still connected to the fuel line and waggle the operating arm. Note I have not this this but surely this should be a valid test?

if there is no fuel try another pump. Keep going until you get those spurts

I know this sounds obvious but I have been there on other issues and sometime you just need to keep it simple and logical. Best of luck!

Dave Chapman

[Chancer]

You have a spare pump, you can test it by hand with a length of pipe into a jar of petrol, you can even just put your finger over the inlet pipe and feel the suction whilst operating the lever by hand, its easier to push the whole pump against the lever against a hard surface than to try and action the lever.

I am guessing that you have not swopped the inlet and outlet ports, the above test will confirm if the valves have been fitted the correct way up.

As has just been said, K.I.S.S.!

[Heuer]

Tried that Dave. No fuel spurting out or indeed being drawn into the glass bowl. I also used a hand held Mity-vac with pressure gauge to draw fuel through the pipe and, despite an initial peak of 5psi, by carefully maintaining 2.5psi I saw fuel flowing with no bubbles. I then tried sucking with my mouth and fuel was easily drawn with light pressure. Unfortunately testing the pump on the car with it out of the block is all but impossible due to lack of room and the short length of fuel pipe.

The original (now spare) pump was tested and overhauled with new NRV's by Brian Buckland although I must confess I have not tested it myself off the car given his reassurance. I noticed the new glass bowl pumps require quite a bit more force to move the operating lever so they may be producing more than 2.5psi incidentally. Next stage is to get hold of a ?13 fuel pump tester:


One final thought - could there be some sort of restriction in the fuel pipe or tank that overcomes the 2.5psi of the fuel pump?

[nebogipfel]

Ignore Ed, most of us do

You seem to be bogged down with the idea that the fuel supply is the problem.

Simple test would be to either.....

1. Stick the suck side of the pump into a petrol can thus eliminating the tank etc
or
2. Pop an electric pump in the line (you must have a Jag one) either pumping from the tank or a petrol can.
or
3. Rig a temporary gravity feed to the carbs

If you supply fuel to the carbs by whatever method and make sure there is a spark and it occurs at the right time the car should start. Elans aren't exactly complicated.

Once running you can then seek to establish why it stopped in the first place.

I'm still bothered by your ignition timing discovery you seem to have forgotten about?? That would certainly cause popping and banging.

[oldchieft]

The old chestnut of something blocking the pick up and dropping off when stopped has been a intermittent cause of problems.

Run the feed line from the tank to suck from a can and try that?

Jon the Chief

[Heuer]

Done both of those. I used the Mity-vac as a petrol pump forcing fuel under pressure into the carbs. This is the device:

I use it to suck fuel from the petrol tank then re-connect the fitting to the fuel line in the boot. Moving the valve (black thing in the middle) allows me to pressurise the container and force fuel into the carbs with the fuel pump still in circuit. Removing the top bung depressurises it so I can see if the pump is drawing fuel on its own. If I want a gravity feed I just lift the Mity-vac above the level of the carbs. Engine started and ran badly for a few seconds with the pressure feed. Tried a second time and it would not start. Tried pressure feed followed by fuel pump feed but nothing could be seen moving through the tubes. Connected the Mity-vac to the other end of the fuel pipe and was able to draw 5 litres of fuel out of the tank - it ran clear with no bubbles.

I have just tested the original pump off the car and it is, as Brian said, working perfectly. Tomorrow I will re-visit the pump supply and replicate my tests.

Incidentally I normally use the Mity-vac as a quick and clean way to change the oil via the dipstick but it has other uses as you can see.