A problem getting the engine to simply turn over.

[Quart Meg Miles]

It's time to establish whether you have a) an electrical connection, b) battery or c) mechanical problem. Here's how:

1. Do your normal hot car stint but before leaving it engage a high gear and jog the car so that the engine is about 20? after TDC (to standardise the test and ensure the contact breaker is open);

2. Next day clip a voltmeter securely to the battery and, preferably, put the meter in the car where you can see it. If you need to use an assistant you will have to rehearse step 4;

3. Engage 4th gear for direct drive (or whichever of your 7 speeds is direct), release the handbrake and push the car back to take up slack in the drive train. (Don't let the engine move but if it does reset it to its original 20? position again and repeat the push back). Put a brick or wood block in front of a wheel to hold the car while you put the handbrake on hard;

4. With the car still in gear note the battery reading, writing it down, press the brake hard and turn the starter key to engage the starter, which will lock up. After two seconds note the battery voltage again and release the key, then compute the voltage drop due to the starter current. Rehearse this a few times without turning the key if you are using an assistant. You may now wish to release the drive train stress by pressing the clutch though there won't be much strain on it if you don't and don't bother to free the starter.

5. On the fourth day repeat steps 2 - 4, where necessary, to obtain new voltmeter readings and drop due to the starter. Then compute:


a) If the two battery volts before turning the key are similar but voltdrop on day four is less than on day one then the circuit resistance has increased You have an electrical path problem.

b) If the battery volt drop on turning the key is significantly more on day four than on day one then the battery's internal resistance has increased indicating a battery problem; also, of course, if the volts before turning the key are already rather lower then that will also be the battery but you will have eliminated that variable already, I should hope;

c) If the battery drop is the same on both days, or at least proportional to the absolute voltage before turning the key, then you must have a mechanical problem.


While the hot favourite is for a battery fault the extra three days for the oil to drain from the bores would increase the friction considerably as you know they are tight from your compression figures. A change of oil type might be revealing and is about the same price as a battery these days!

Hope this makes sense and helps.

[david g]

HI Dan Sorry to hear you are having trouble starting.I think your problem is ing. timing.You are trying to start a high comp engine on12 deg BTDC.Cranking at around 200 rpm your cylinder charge is well burning before TDC and trying to push the piston down against the starter By the time you get after TDC your charge is all tuckerd out,and the next piston is on the way up doing the same thing.Giving you Wa wa wa Wa as discribed by others.You only need 5 deg advance to start the engine going to 10-12deg at tickover your old dizzy could be wandering2-3 deg or more.GO to a good dizzy doctor get it sortad with springs and weights to give a map that will start and run the engine . OR go electronic.David.

[Chancer]

Glad that I am not the only voice in the wilderness being ignored.

You can overcome the cranking advance problem for a couple of quid without having to resort to a dizzy rig or mapped system, it also gives a good anti-theft device.

[worzel]

Hi

Thanks for all of the input/ideas.

Re Chancer's comments/suggestions. since 4 days have elapsed I've just tried your idea with the ignition disabled. Highly subjective I know but there doesn't seem to be any change in terms of cranking speed compared with that obtained when the ignition is operating.

Regards

John

[worzel]

Hi- again

Sorry for the oversight re david G's comments about the dizzy. Not a bad idea but the dizzy on this car is operating spot on with no flutter and with correct advance at higher speeds. Also, I've always used the 12 degree setting since 1978 when I bought the car and it's never been a problem to start up until about 4/5 years ago.

A friend with an almost completed 26R running 11+compressions and 230 odd psi per cylinder finds he has to use two batteries to start up. As I said my car shows around 225 compressions so just might be an underpowered battery. Keeping things simple the most obvious course of action is to borrow a bigger reserve battery and see how that copes before resorting to a big hammer!

I'm pretty sure the starting side of things is now fault free in terms of installation. As for the actual starter- I've substituted a brand new one borrowed from a friend with a big valved plus 2 and there's no difference. Might borrow his battery too!

regards

John

[david g]

Hello again.well sorry i got the name wrong in my last poat .You cant carry around the national grid to crank a 1558 motor.power to the starter is not the problem.Detonation on cranking is a well documented problem .Just try starting at 5 deg advance .I think Chancer and i would like to know the outcome David.

[Hawksfield]

Worzel

For all the checks you say you have done you have not yet eliminated the battery, try another battery from another vehicle that you know is good.
Or get your battery drop tested.

I thinks its your battery, what CCA is it and Ah rating


Good luck

[Quart Meg Miles]

Worzel, You haven't got a stuck boot lamp switch have you? The lamp would be pretty hot if you have and it would take nearly 50 AH out of the battery in four days (assuming it is a 6 Watt bulb). You would have made sure it was open when measuring battery leakage current (which I think you did earlier).

Two easy tests on battery quality:

1. Charge the battery without running the car on the third day. How does it start on the fourth?

2. Substitute some else's good battery on the fourth day, how does it start?


OFF TOPIC: Can anyone advise me what a message stuck in the PM Outbox is telling me and what I can do about it? I can't find anything in FAQ. Thanks.

[oldelanman]

OFF TOPIC: Can anyone advise me what a message stuck in the PM Outbox is telling me and what I can do about it? I can't find anything in FAQ. Thanks.

It means the message has not yet been read by the recipient.

[types26/36]

OFF TOPIC: Can anyone advise me what a message stuck in the PM Outbox is telling me and what I can do about it? I can't find anything in FAQ. Thanks.

As above It means the recipient has not opened your PM, I believe you could just delete it but if the recipient does ever open it then it will show them that the message has been deleted.

[Quart Meg Miles]

Thanks, Berkshire's finest.

[mark030358]

I have been reading this post as I have a similar issue.

After car has stood the car will either crank OK for a few times then crank very slowly or just click the solenoid. I have tried both a gear reduction starter and a standard starter, same problem. The battery is new, all connections clean, new solenid. I even jumpered the battery with another one from a car running behind, same problem. What is Interesting though, is if I put the car in gear, rock it and take it past top dead centre the car will crank.

Any advice appreciated.

cheers

Mark

[mbell]

Have you checked the static ignition timing?

If it's too advanced it could fire/ignite when the piston is still on it's compression stroke. Effectively pushing the piston back down against the starter.

I've had problems with getting mine to start after long long period off not running (a few years or maybe even 20+). I've found the static timing was at around 32 degree BTC not 12! Had problems with cranking slowly and draining the battery quickly. I've set mine back to 12 degrees and will try to start it again shortly. I've fitted Pertronix module so that may have effected the timing on mine.

I'd consider checking the cam timing and doing a compression test also. Especially if the ignition timing is good.

[john.p.clegg]

Mark

" I even jumpered the battery with another one from a car running behind, same problem."

next time try it from a car running in front....jump jeads to the solenoid and engine...this will eliminate the heavy duty wiring/earth from the rear of the car to the front.

John

[KevJ+2]

I'm intrigued with this post, it was started on 26/10/12 with lots of people giving great advice but it seems to have just ended without result!
Worzel's last post was in November and I would love to know particularly, if he tried a new battery as so many advised him to do.
Come on Worzel - what happened?
Kev.