Odd starting issues

[garyeanderson]

Now if everybody with a Lucas starter did that it will become an environmental issue on par with BP....pollution of the oceans. :roll:
(we have already had the asbestos debate)

Hi Brian

Looks like they all failed QC tests and floated back to the surface. Definitely defective units and must be re-screened with fresh water as the density of Salt water is higher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater

[types26/36]

Meanwhile somewhere off the coast of Massachusetts

[garyeanderson]

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massac ... ord_catch/

August 27th, two summers back, my friend that paints my cars stopped by to say his wifes brother had "got a big one" so we went to have a look. A couple hundred folks were waiting around for the boat to come in with the catch. I got a few pictures of the big fella. Males are small, the females are big. I don't know what the bait was but I don't think Lucas was involved in any way. 624 lbs (283 kg) 127 inches (322 cm) long and a girth of around 65 or so inches (165cm).

Gary

[summerinmaine]

Interestingly, the new Pegasus Racing catalog arrived today (parts for FF race cars and the like), and, amidst the Tilton SuperStarters and such, they sell Lucas starters (refurbed by Delco-Remy IIRC) with nary a mention of why a racer might or might not want to fit one. Is there a racing class that requires OEM parts right down to the starters? I expect so.

The bad news for me: They're listed at only @$100, so there goes my plan of selling my used OEM one-of-a-kind Lotus starter, and thereby funding a comfortable retirement.

[Elanintheforest]

Yep, unfortunately Jim millions were made, but very few with the bendix / teeth as fitted to the twincam....probably another main source of the perceived problem with these starters when folks fit a Cortina, Anglia, Mini or a hundred other and wrong bits onto them....that does chew up the ring grear pretty quickly!

Mark

[ivor badger]

Yep, unfortunately Jim millions were made, but very few with the bendix / teeth as fitted to the twincam....probably another main source of the perceived problem with these starters when folks fit a Cortina, Anglia, Mini or a hundred other and wrong bits onto them....that does chew up the ring grear pretty quickly!

Mark

What is different about the pinion on the Elan? I know they made 10 and 11s and they also ran both ways. There are also 2 flange sizes. I assumed that they would just use the pinion from the Ford. So I will see if I can find the old parts book and check.

[types26/36]

[quote="ivor badger"I know they made 10 and 11s and they also ran both ways. [/quote]

I know of nine's & tens fitted on Elans but I have not heard of 11's is that correct?

[garyeanderson]

[quote="ivor badger"I know they made 10 and 11s and they also ran both ways.

I know of nine's & tens fitted on Elans but I have not heard of 11's :!: is that correct?[/quote]

Hi Brian

Maybe go to that beach where they litter the shoreline and see if you can ask that shark, the feeding looks pretty good. I have seen tv shows where the sharks come right up on the beach and pluck a seal off for a meal.

Gary

[types26/36]

Maybe go to that beach where they litter the shoreline and see if you can ask that shark, Gary

[ivor badger]

[quote="ivor badger"I know they made 10 and 11s and they also ran both ways.

I know of nine's & tens fitted on Elans but I have not heard of 11's is that correct?[/quote]

I only have the replacement Lucas list for 1958 immediately to hand. Bit pre Elan, but will see if I can root out a more modern book. M35s have 9 teeth, M418 have 9/10/11 and M45 have10/11.

Seem to remenber CF vans used 11, but it was a long time ago I changed it.

[bob_rich]

Hi All

This post seems to have poked a stick in a wasps nest! Before I started my rebuild I measured the performance of my starter motor. I have attached what I found, which is a page take from my log on the project, below. For the test I disconnected the coil so the engine would not start.

Whether the lucas starter is "any good" I won't comment. It started mine OK but at times was very slow, usually when cold (UK SE England winter). In very cold weather battery chemistry can be also be slugish and there is anecdotal evidence that switching on the headlamps for 30 seconds or so then switch off can liven up the battery and starting can be improved. Battery needs to be in good nick and charged up of course. Off the car starter motors will run very fast as they are usually series connected motors giving high torque when stalled / low rpm and high rpm off load--ideal for car starting.

whatever starter U use I hope your car starts readily when U want 2 use it -- especially as good weather should be just around the corner !!

cheers

Bob

[ivor badger]

The theory behind switching the head lamps on is that using the battery heats it up and the warmer battery in cold weather gives more current. Better to operate the starter for a few seconds and then wait for 30 secs for the heat to take effect.

[Tonyw]

Hi all,

I found reading this thread interesting. Mark is of course correct in that a stock standard starter in good operating condition will do the job as intended, Gary is also correct in that the modern pre-engaged starter are technologically superior.

What I find mildly amusing is the attitude that says if it is old and there is a better product use it....................I just hope this only applies to our cars and not us, come to think of it, the wife could do with updating.....................seriously we are perhaps being a tad lazy buying a new product so we do not have to do all of the precise maintenance required to keep the Lucas starters going on the other hand better to be driving than working on your car.

Tonyw

[Elanintheforest]

Well, I take the point that the starter probably wont cope in -20C or +40C very well, but the car probably wasn't designed for such conditions. It's a small fairly delicate sports car intended to last for 6 or 8 years and used for fun, not arctic expeditions.

I totally agree with you Tony that it's the attitude that a modern replacement must be used because it's better that seems at odds with owning an old car. If that's the case then the old twincam is just as crap, as are the brakes, suspension units, steering and certainly the wiring and chassis. Then there's the vacuum headlamps and the rubber doughnuts. God knows what these guys would think about an Elite, which needs a full service every 1500 miles, and the rear bearings have to be pumped with grease if it's driven in the rain!

I'm all for a highly modified car like the one that John has built and now Alan is building....they are both great engineering challenges resulting in something interesting and perhaps a genuine development on the Elan theme. But to dismiss something as crap when it plainly isn't is just demonstrating that they can't figure out how to make it work properly. Unfortunately folks new to Elans reading up about them on this forum may actually believe that some of the original components really are crap.

I have a lot of respect for the knowledge and experience of Miles Wilkins, and his two page article on 'Exploding the Myths' on page 195 / 196 of his Lotus Twin Cam Engine book says it all.

Mark

[bast0n]

Elan in the Forest

Mark

I could not agree with you more. If you don't like it don't buy it!

Why some of the people on here spend their time slagging of various parts, and sometimes the car in general I do not know. They are candidates for the MX5 - a jolly good car - not an icon that needs tender loving care.

I run mine as a daily driver and all over Europe in the holidays and much enjoy it's little foibles!

Stone chips - the occasional replacement part and so on are all part of the game whilst running an Elan. If the moaners cannot hack it they should by a replacement body/chassis/Zetech engine/Minilites/5 speed gearbo/leather(ugh)interiror et all and drive off into the sunset.

I am not an "originalist" but do think the basic design was good enough for me and most others out there. Name me another 45 year old car (mine) that's as much fun.

For goodness sake you lot - STOP MOANING and get your spanners out and drive it. Most of your problems are caused by under use.