Machine shops

[RichardHawkins]

Andy,

Several years ago I had work done by Serdi uk in Uxbridge. They corrected the damage done to my head by Coventry boring an metalling, who I had previously selected, based on the equipment they had and the exotic engines in their shop. I was unhappy with the work they did for me, and chose Serdi uk on the advice of someone from a valve manufacturer.

Due to slow work rate and ill health my car is incomplete and the engine has yet to run, so I cannot say conclusively that I recommend Serdi, but they are closer to you than Coventry, so maybe worth a visit.

Hope this helps,

Richard Hawkins

[Andy8421]

All,

Thanks again for the replies. On the basis of above recommendations I have narrowed it down to a couple of shops who look to be very good candidates.

An interesting contrast has arisen, do I go with old timers who have been doing this for ages, using equipment that is probably older than they are, or younger, modern engine builders using state of the art equipment producing work to modern OEM standards.

My inclination is to go with the old timers, but my son (an aerospace engineer) pulls a face every time he goes into my workshop when I start going on about the level of precision that can be achieved with old machines. His point is that modern machining centres (whatever they are..) produce very high levels of precision and surface finish day in, day out, where as older methods depended entirely on the skills of the machinist to get the job done. A really good machinist, on a good day, with everything recently calibrated, and machinery that isn't old enough to have a picture of Queen Victoria of the front can walk a job in to very high levels of precision - but is that what you are going to get when you show up - or do you get Joe after a big night out, whose eyesight isn't what it was, who has just dropped his micrometer and the crank grinder's bearings are beginning to rumble? - and for a 50 year old engine that is going to do very little mileage, does it really matter?

I am going to visit both shops, and will report back.

Andy.

[promotor]

All,

Thanks again for the replies. On the basis of above recommendations I have narrowed it down to a couple of shops who look to be very good candidates.

An interesting contrast has arisen, do I go with old timers who have been doing this for ages, using equipment that is probably older than they are, or younger, modern engine builders using state of the art equipment producing work to modern OEM standards.

My inclination is to go with the old timers, but my son (an aerospace engineer) pulls a face every time he goes into my workshop when I start going on about the level of precision that can be achieved with old machines. His point is that modern machining centres (whatever they are..) produce very high levels of precision and surface finish day in, day out, where as older methods depended entirely on the skills of the machinist to get the job done. A really good machinist, on a good day, with everything recently calibrated, and machinery that isn't old enough to have a picture of Queen Victoria of the front can walk a job in to very high levels of precision - but is that what you are going to get when you show up - or do you get Joe after a big night out, whose eyesight isn't what it was, who has just dropped his micrometer and the crank grinder's bearings are beginning to rumble? - and for a 50 year old engine that is going to do very little mileage, does it really matter?

I am going to visit both shops, and will report back.

Andy.

If a machine shop will let you check the finished sizes while you wait (providing you have accurate enough tools to check confidently) then you probably have someone who is either good at their job - and proud of it - or doesn't know how bad a job they do.
That's the question I would ask before I took anything - are you happy for me to check before taking it away?

A cylinder boring job is really only as good as the honing machine, dressing of tools and the operator. Same for a crank grind job.
What machines are they using and what tolerances do they work to are the most important questions.

[Donels]

Just to add to your decision problem, have you considered John Wilcox? A twin cam expert who builds race and road engines. I have used him for refacing flywheels so he’s happy to do small jobs as well as complete engines.

[2cams70]

Modern machining centres?? Modern engines just aren't designed to be rebuilt. That's why a lot of these businesses are going broke. Rebuilding engines is an old time skill. You only need to be as precise as what is required for the job. Beyond that level you are wasting your time.

The quality of the job for one-offs is largely about the quality of the initial set up. Set it up wrong and it will still be wrong but at least the wrong dimensions will be very consistent and precisely wrong when modern equipment is used!!

[Andy8421]

FWIW, I was at Goodwood yesterday for the Member's meeting.

There were approximately 30 Lotus Cortinas competing in a Jim Clarke memorial race celebrating the 60th anniversary of the launch of the Lotus Cortina. Some very committed racing, and great to see the cars together.

I took the opportunity to speak to the competitors in the pits to see who had built their engines. Everyone who was prepared to speak to me had used Neil Brown - not someone I had heard of. Website below:

https://nbe.co.uk/

There is a tendency for competitors to follow what the winner does - the old joke about the winner showing up with a red flywheel, then by the next race everyone has painted their flywheel red is true enough. So it is possible that the Lotus Cortina crowd have played 'follow the leader' with Neil, but the competitors certainly seemed to know their stuff and had a high regard for Neil. I don't know if he works on roadgoing cars, but might be worth a call.

[StressCraxx]

Andy, that's certainly true about racers using specific engine builders. Years ago, drivers racing Formula B or Formula Ford would send their engines to the builder who's engine was in the most recent winning car. The other thought is supporting the builder who actively supports the competitors both at the shop and at the track.

We have that level of support here on the US west coast by one engine builder. He has over 40 Formula Ford customers and travels 500+ miles to support us at the track at no extra cost. He has even helped drivers who were not his customers, in a bind and got them back on grid.

[2cams70]

People who build high tech race engines for a living for extremely wealthy customers with unlimited budgets aren't necessarily who you need to rebuild an ancient low tech primitive engine like a Lotus Twin Cam for primarily limited road use application. These people aren't generally interested in the art of restoration and conservation. Their skill is in the art of replacing.

My only contact with Neil Brown was about 5 or 6 years ago when I was interested in a Pace wet sump oil pump for my engine - I see Pace pumps no longer have a dedicated website and it all comes back to NBE. Lots of emails and promises to get back to me but that never happened. I subsequently heard a rumour from another supplier that this particular pump design had issues. If that was the case they should have said straight up that it was no longer available but didn't and left me hanging instead.

[StressCraxx]

People who build high tech race engines for a living for extremely wealthy customers with unlimited budgets aren't necessarily who you need to rebuild an ancient low tech primitive engine like a Lotus Twin Cam for primarily limited road use application. These people aren't generally interested in the art of restoration and conservation. Their skill is in the art of replacing.....

To some extent I completely agree with you. Most of us who own a Lotus or Lotus related cars, like Formula Ford are not flush with cash flowing from our pockets. I have experienced the expense and pain of using a local machine shop who wasn't conversant in the "Twincam" language. There is great benefit to use a shop who can take the OEM tolerances and data and skillfully perform the required machine work.

To paraphrase in my life's career "You get what you inspect, not what you expect!" I would much rather pay a premium to have it done exactly right, than to save a few dollars and find I had to rebuild it again.

I have taken my twincam to a shop that came highly recommended from other Lotus owners and had to retrieve it in pieces because he insisted sandblasting and glass beading the alloy head would not cause any problems with embedding glass and sand in the metal. Months later, the engine builder was in small claims court for the damage he did to a rare Alfa head.

I found another reputable shop who did the required machine work and did a wonderful job with cleaning, inspection, machining and fitting the replacement valve guides and seats. He performed the work to my specs (OE and Dave Bean). The outcome was excellent with a reliable engine.

Yes, race engine shops may charge a premium, but if you are looking for performance, reliability and integrity, they are hard to beat. My most recent rebuild went to an ex Lotus employee who also was one of the top technicians at Veloce Motors (3 time US 'D' and 'C' Production national champion in a '65 Lotus Elan.

[Europa88]

You don’t have to pay a premium to get a craftsman in a machine shop. My machinist is James of Grace engineering in Newbury and I’ve just watched a video of him repairing a Model T Ford cylinder head with a huge crack all along the length of the head by cold stitching!

[Bahamayellow]

Phil birch who in the end did you choose?

I was always told JS Motorsport were the shop to go to. They built my engine for the PO through Paul Mattys workshop who reassembled the car after the original owner had a go and I’ve been taking it apart and rectifying mistakes ever since. Fortunately the engine has been spot on and we did 3,500 miles across Spain and France which was 14 years ago and it’s still going as strong as ever.

Mike

[mark030358]

+1 for Smirthwaite. May take a while mind.
Cheers
Mark

[davidbravo]

Here are some recommendations for machine shops that work on twin cam engines:

AMAC Engineering in Northallerton - A family-run shop known for quality work.

Paul Exon near Loughborough - Experienced in rebuilding heads, ex-QED.

Race Engineering - Based in Ruthin, North Wales.

Bill Bannister at UNIT 1A, Hecla Works, Bamber Bridge, Preston - Highly recommended for engine work.

Grace Engineering in Newbury - Experienced with twin cams, run by an ex-Oselli engineer.

Good luck with your search!

[alanr]

Knight Engine Services.Northants for me. John Knight did an excellent job on my cylinder head a few years ago at a very reasonable price.
They certainly know their way around a Twink and i wouldn't hestate to use them again for any engine machining work.
https://www.knightengineservices.co.uk/


Alan.

[tonyabacus]

Andy
I understand John Wilcox has now retired, however to give you an insight to the workmanship of some of these old timers, John rebuilt my BDH 1300cc and managed to get close to 189bhp from it. Quite staggering really and to watch it being run up to 9000+rpm on the dyno to achieve that was some experience. Likewise John Smirthwaite has just rebuilt my twincam for my Elan and whilst I was not looking for a race engine, he has built it to give a respectable 140bhp. So here are two examples of old school builders that know how to put together a twincam, from years of experience developing ways to overcome some of the weaknesses. John has built a good reputation on these twincams, although he has had some personal issues that have interrupted some recent work. But definitely worth a call.

These are people that have built up a knowledge base over many years and have learnt what does or does not work with a particular engine. All engines have their own Idiosyncrasies and that is where the years of knowledge come in. By way of example, we were one of the first teams to run the Ford Escort Turbo's in the National Group N series, this involved an annual 24 Hour race. We ran two identical blue printed engines from a very well known source, however one engine was not as strong as the other despite both engines being new and prepared by the same engine tuner. One engine always felt so much stronger and revved slightly differently to the other.

With so many horror stories going around over the years about peoples experiences of poor quality, I would stick to those guys that have built up a depth of knowledge on this type of engine, although it may mean having to travel a little.
Best of Luck
Tony