Sump removal, engine in car

[alan.barker]

Attach a strong Magnet to the Sump and drive your Lotus.
Alan

[nwbaxter66]

OK, now I am happy, the pragmatists have come out to play — my inclination - thanks

[david.g.chapman]

I don't have that much trouble removing the sump in my +2. I just take off the anti-roll bar and removeable cross member, take off the starter motor and central backing plate on the bell housing, and then remove the 20 bolts. All done flat on my back so no backache!

Putting the sump back on again is slightly more exciting. I have to make sure the sump engages with the cylinder block without sideways wiggling, which is likely to misplace the half moon cork seals at each end. On my car the sump fouled the vacuum chamber at one end and the bellhousing at the other. The sump sealing flange had spread slightly over the years, and a few tactical blows with a hammer got it back into shape so I was able to offer the sump up smoothly. As mentioned, I then use a couple of longer bolts to get the sump into position, then substitute them later. In fact I did just that last week to complete my engine refresh!

If you want to try it and have the sump off I would rehearse offering up the sump on clean cork gaskets to make sure you are not misplacing them before its showtime with gasket sealant applied.

Best of luck,

Dave Chapman.

[gjz30075]

and central backing plate on the bell housing, and then remove the 20 bolts. All done flat on my back so no backache!

How do you do this? It seems the gearbox needs to be moved back enough(after removing bellhousing
bolts) to get the backing plate off the dowels, then upward (on a 6 bolt). I can't imagine a 4 bolt block
plate coming out. Am I thinking right?

[elancoupe]

Keith Franck is currently performing this operation on his 4 bolt sump. He slides his gearbox rearward to get the extra clearance. Does not unbolt the driveshaft from the diff.

I do not know if he has a one, or two piece bell housing shield.

[mbell]

I am not sure if it changed at some point but bell house shield is two pieces on my car. Removing the central part is enough to give access to the bolts and expect to allow removal the sump without having to separate engine and gearbox. I've only done it to check the sump bolts not remove the sump, so I may be wrong.

[gjz30075]

Good to hear, Mark. The six bolt lip seal engine has the two piece block plate, whereas the 4 bolt
has the one piece, open at the top, like a large 'U'. I'm also following Keith's work in this
particular area and I *think* it's a rope seal, 4 bolt crank engine.

[mbell]

Hi Greg,

You are correct that Keith is working on a 4 bolt rope seal engine. So the plate changing between 4 and 6 bolt would explain why he needed to split the engine and gearbox but others don't.

Cheers,

Mark

[2cams70]

You are really putting the cart before the horse talking about removing the sump without having discovered the cause of why there is no key. The key should not fall out just by removing the pulley. Something is wrong. For example if the key is broken with half of it still remaining in the front sprocket you will need to do more than just remove the sump to retrieve the broken key. Once we know what it looks like directly behind the front pulley we can take things further from there. You should see an oil slinger with square shaped cutout around the centre hole for the key. Gently try to rotate the slinger with a screwdriver through the opening. At some point you should be able to observe the key (or remains thereof) located in the front timing sprocket

If there is no key at all in the front sprocket that's really bad. The valve timing could slip resulting in a head full of bent valves and damaged pistons.

[rgh0]

You are really putting the cart before the horse talking about removing the sump without having discovered the cause of why there is no key. The key should not fall out just by removing the pulley. Something is wrong. For example if the key is broken with half of it still remaining in the front sprocket you will need to do more than just remove the sump to retrieve the broken key. Once we know what it looks like directly behind the front pulley we can take things further from there. You should see an oil slinger with square shaped cutout around the centre hole for the key. Gently try to rotate the slinger with a screwdriver through the opening. At some point you should be able to observe the key (or remains thereof) located in the front timing sprocket.

+1

cheers
Rohan

[david.g.chapman]

What knowledge I have is limited to my Mark 2 twin cam with the 6 bolt crankshaft.

It is possible on my 2 piece backing plate to wiggle the center plate out and gain access to all of the sump bolts. The remains of the backing plate in position does affect the way the sump is offered up to the block on re-assembly, so it's a bit of a shimmy operation with the final push to engagement smooth and vertical to avoid displacing those pesky half moon seals.

I must have done this about 4 times over the last 20 years!

I would take it step by step and follow 2cams70's advice before committing to sump removal though.

Cheers,

Dave Chapman.

[Hawksfield]

Nick

Came upon this image it gives a little light on the arrangement of the crank pulley

https://lotuselan.net/lel/20599/0/DSCN0033.JPG


Good luck

[Bigbaldybloke]

I my experience the woodruff key is usually a tight fit in the crank and also snug in the sprocket and pulley. I believe it is theoretically possible for the key to come out of the crank once the pulley is removed as the centre of the key is just in front of the sprocket so it could rotate enough to come out of the sprocket and crank, but unless the key was really loose that’s very unlikely unless you are very unlucky. Did you rotate the engine once you removed the pulley? The previous comments highlight that you need to ensure you have a key correctly in place before you replace the pulley otherwise there is a real risk of the timing moving and valves and pistons colliding. Again a boroscope would be useful to see if part of the key is still in the sprocket, if it’s missing I’m not sure if you have sufficient access to fit a replacement with the front cover on, if part of the key is still in the sprocket, you’re into an engine out job I believe to get the remainder out.
So two options, the key is completely missing, find it and replace it, not sure how easy this is with the front cover on.
Second option, key has sheared and the remains are still in the sprocket, that’s an engine out job and strip down I believe.
If the key is completely missing, I’m sure you done it but have a real good look around the front of the car to try to find the key, a magnet on a stick is worth poking around the area, it’s surprising how far small parts can bounce around and end up in what seems unlikely places. Otherwise, as suggested previously, a boroscope in the sump plug hole to look around may be useful, but not sure what sump baffles you have that may limit this.

[tonyabacus]

Hi Nick
What bad luck, what position was the keyway in when you pulled the pulley, unless it was very loose it would have remained in the slot. Can you actually feel/see that the keyway is empty, just to verify that part of it is still not stuck in there?

I think the previous advice about a bore scope is a good first step, but before emptying the sump, use it around the area where the key may have dropped and see if you can spot anything. Also might be worth using one of those slim pencil magnets around that area in case it has just dropped out of sight.

I know it is a long shot but someone else mentioned about doing another search of the floor, I had a similar problem in dropping something and could not find it over an area about metre square and gave up. Later my wife brought in refreshment and said what's this bit of metal here, it turned out to be the part which was over 2 metres away, saved the day.

Its hard to believe there never was a key for the reasons previously stated. If the key had sheared as you disassembled then certainly part would still be in the crank which you should just about see. Secondly the other sheared part would either still be in the pulley or has dropped down inside and needs to be found, hence the magnet if you can get one in. Also has it possibly bounced and landed on part of the chassis or down inside the front apron, this again is where the magnet is useful, especially around the chassis.

Hope it turns up without having to pull the sump.
Tony