Filters spin vs cartridge

[h20hamelan]

Interesting discussion. My Toyota (2008) has a spin on but the next generation (2010+) of it is cartridge. My suspicion is that going cartridge takes a few parameters away from the filter supplier. Bypass and drain back valve are now within the OEM's control.

Many of my diesel trucks are paper cartridge

[2cams70]

question, if oil supply of a high volume pump is too much, and the early ones not enough. What is the formula. Did the 68+ with the wider rotors change because newer oils were on the market and the wider rotors were better for a reason do you suspect? please

There's 3 rotor widths that are used in those Ford oil pumps:

1. 16mm for the standard cartridge filter style pump
2. 19mm for both the standard and High pressure spin on type filter pumps
3. 25mm for the High Pressure and High Volume type pumps

Ford used the 16mm and 19mm rotors in standard production pumps. Can only guess as to why they made the change form 16mm to 19mm. Probably as engines aged and clearances increased they found that pumps with 16mm rotors could not keep up with oil demand under certain conditions.

[Andy8421]

Interesting discussion. My Toyota (2008) has a spin on but the next generation (2010+) of it is cartridge. My suspicion is that going cartridge takes a few parameters away from the filter supplier. Bypass and drain back valve are now within the OEM's control.

Interesting point. I generally service my own cars when they get past the end of the guarantee period - I have had some bad experiences with main dealers. We have a couple of newish BMW minis my children use, they both have disposable cartridge filters within a plastic screw on cover. Its a pretty neat arrangement with a captive O ring, and can be changed from the top of the engine. I had assumed this was just BMW, but from the above it seems there has been a general shift.

[rgh0]

Interesting discussion. My Toyota (2008) has a spin on but the next generation (2010+) of it is cartridge. My suspicion is that going cartridge takes a few parameters away from the filter supplier. Bypass and drain back valve are now within the OEM's control.

Interesting point. I generally service my own cars when they get past the end of the guarantee period - I have had some bad experiences with main dealers. We have a couple of newish BMW minis my children use, they both have disposable cartridge filters within a plastic screw on cover. Its a pretty neat arrangement with a captive O ring, and can be changed from the top of the engine. I had assumed this was just BMW, but from the above it seems there has been a general shift.

VAG has gone down the same route of replaceable cartridge recessed in the engine with a plastic cap sealed by an O-ring. I guess it cheap and compact in crowded modern engine bays. The plastic caps have a limited life and can crack especially if over tightened so you can buy after market billet alloy ones! Moving the cartridge to the top of the engine seems to be a more recent change which I guess means less oil spilled and easier access especially with all the under body shields on recent cars.

On the question of why did Ford increase the pump capacity with the move to spin on filters in the late 60's I suspect it related to the introduction of multi grade oils into popular use around that same time. Conventional mineral oil based multi grade oils thin over time with use as the viscosity improver is chopped up into smaller molecules every time it passes through the bearings and pump. The viscosity improver is actually polyethylene mechanically chopped into relatively low molecular weight strands so that it is soluble in mineral oil. The smaller the polyethylene molecules the less viscosity improvement effect they have. This means that oil pressure can drop during use between oil changes and I suspect Ford put in a larger pump so this would not be as noticeable and attract complaints.

cheers
Rohan

[2cams70]

By contrast those Triumph Spitfires had a 25mm rotor on early 4 cylinder engines, later increased to 29mm. The 6 cylinder versions of the same basic engine design had even wider rotors again in their oil pumps.
I'm not quite sure what the reason was for Triumph requiring such large rotors when only 16mm was sufficient in a Ford engine. They must have been designed with a massive internal oil leak somewhere!! - it certainly wasn't a better engine. You can fit the Triumph 25mm rotors into a Ford oil pump to convert it to the High Volume specification.

[rgh0]

By contrast those Triumph Spitfires had a 25mm rotor on early 4 cylinder engines, later increased to 29mm. The 6 cylinder versions of the same basic engine design had even wider rotors again in their oil pumps.
I'm not quite sure what the reason was for Triumph requiring such large rotors when only 16mm was sufficient in a Ford engine. They must have been designed with a massive internal oil leak somewhere!! - it certainly wasn't a better engine. You can fit the Triumph 25mm rotors into a Ford oil pump to convert it to the High Volume specification.

The triumph engines were certainly a more basic design than the ford. So probably greater bearing clearance tolerances and other design and manufacturing issues resulted in larger bearing clearances and the need for bigger oil flows needing larger pumps. The triumph longer stroke engines would generate higher bearing loads and thus a need for more oil flow also

cheers
Rohan

[Craven]

Perhaps Triumph need extra capacity to maintain their higher running pressures when hot, typical 65 psi.

[gherlt]

Moving the cartridge to the top of the engine seems to be a more recent change which I guess means less oil spilled and easier access especially with all the under body shields on recent cars.

If the flow to these cartridges comes from below, that means -with engine stopped- oil from the filter flows downwards and makes an oil change without oil filter change (or filter change without oil change) more effective. Having oils that last 30.000km could be a reason for that configuration.

[mbell]

My 2002 BMW has the cartridge type filter, its actually a remote housing the the front corner of the engine bay. that is changed from the top. The cap is removed using large (36mm?) socket. This cartridge setup, remote or on the engine seems to have been common for 20+ years on BMW.

It works well enough, only issue I've had is the cap failing so the filter didn't clip to it. Then when removing the cap the filter stays in the housing, meaning the oil level is above the top and you have a mess to clean up. Not a major expense to get a new cap.

The wife's 2016 Volvo has cartridge type that mount at side of the sump. It features a drain hole, to allow draining the filter contents before removing it. This basically doesn't fully work so have a mess of oil to clean from the sump. It also needs a special oil filter socket for it.

[prezoom]

One of the better things I did when installing the Zetec in the Plus2, was to purchase a 90 degree adapter, commonly used on V8 Mustangs, from Summit Racing. The adapter fits between the block and the filter, and allows vertical fitting of the oil filter. The adapter also works with the water to oil heat exchanger, which warms the oil quicker from cold and keeps oil temperatures under control in our reclaimed desert climate. One less mess to deal with during filter changes.