sump upgrade

[1owner69Elan]

Picture of my baffled sump as per Dave Vegher.

No moving parts/gates just trays/baffles. Dave also modified the pickup to extend closer to the bottom of the sump. A basic approach borne out over 40 years of racing. Dave has a fundamental aversion to extraneous moving parts within the engine (e.g. swinging pickups, etc.) as adding a possible point of failure.

[gjz30075]

Looks like he has great faith in Glyptol, too. I like the baffle arrangement.

[rgh0]

I used a very similar baffle arrangement to the Vegher one in my Elan when i initially started racing. It worked ok in most situations but the long Right hand hairpin onto the back straight at Winton race track was to much for it and I would lose pressure. I went to an accusump for a number of years which worked well but they got banned for my historic race class. I then went to a swing gate baffled sump with a centre pickup which has worked well in my car and in many others. I developed this based on a discussion in the pits with an old twincam racer about 30 years ago. This is the basic design that Col Croucher from Elantrikbits adapted and improved upon in terms of construction details as seen in the ebook he produced compared to my relatively crude first attempt that is still in service .

cheers
Rohan

[webrest7]

I have installed the Elantrikbits method, absolutely fantastic. Col is a mate but I would never recommend it if it was rubbish. Every thing he does works.

[Greg Foster]

26re60831s.jpg (53.46 KiB) Viewed 666 times

Has anyone used the setup that Ray sells at rdent.

[h20hamelan]

Has anyone used the setup that Ray sells at rdent.

4 those of us not racing

[StressCraxx]

26re60831s.jpg

Has anyone used the setup that Ray sells at rdent.

I made a similar pan for autocross years ago. A friend who autocrossed a twincam S3 Seven showed me how to build it. I found it really didn't make any oil pressure difference for hard right hand corners. I still had to overfill the sump by 1 US pint. That said, it probably helped with keeping the oil slosh from coming back up and hitting the crank. I think a crank scraper would help too.

[h20hamelan]

Any room for improvement on this tray style, makes sense the gated blocks slosh. Probably not that much more work to add a wee gate i say. What if it fails, no big deal, seems to me. As one is still left with ye tray.

[2cams70]

The problem with that flat baffle plate is that the flat baffle is not sealed against the side of the sump. Have a look at how Ford did it with the Escort twin cam sump. They also had a clever trapdoor hinge plate on the top surface which acts as a one-way check valve allowing oil return to the sump bowl whilst preventing it from sloshing out of the bowl.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/FORD-ESCORT-MK1 ... 3537372399

[h20hamelan]

It’s sort of tough for me to understand what’s going on, or maybe these pictures are not telling enough?

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viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17554&start=15

The descriptions here helped, thanks

[h20hamelan]

The problem with that flat baffle plate is that the flat baffle is not sealed against the side of the sump. Have a look at how Ford did it with the Escort twin cam sump. They also had a clever trapdoor hinge plate on the top surface which acts as a one-way check valve allowing oil return to the sump bowl whilst preventing it from sloshing out of the bowl.

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/FORD-ESCORT-MK1 ... 3537372399

Having a tough time figuring how Escort twin cam trapdoor hinge plate works. Maybe I need more direction please. 2cams70, you say its a top surface one-way check valve? Hope someone can point this out in more in description, vendor or photos please.

I agree with Golden Gate, CeeJay and Rohan that the trap door works. Also, not very complicated, or expensive if one is taking the time to make a basic tray anyway.

[2cams70]

See attached. It's the hinged flap on the top surface of the baffle plate located on the bottom LHS. Shown open but it closes when subject to the forces from sloshing oil on the inside surface.

[h20hamelan]

Thanks 2cams70.
Was the Escort twin cam windage tray developed because of larger capacity pan, or another reason?
Would the elan benefit from a top gate as well, or is the tried tested Chapman (he seems to take credit for the development?) Europa gated windage tray the only answer?
As John, CeeJay and Rohan suggest in the above link. A mere baffle is not sufficient, where a gate allows extreme cornering with low oil slosh.
2cams70, if the top gate was added to the elan twin cam on the LHS. How much lower would the Elan pick up need to be, the tray would also be lower?
I also can not tell exactly where the oil pick up is on the Escort twin, looks like in the circular opening on the left side.

[2cams70]

I think the Escort Twin Cam sump was developed by Ford Advanced Vehicle Operations (AVO) for both increased oil capacity and reduced possibility of oil starvation during cornering. It's actually a very clever design. It retains the original sump profile within and the added "Big WIng" bit covers it. Openings in the original profile allow oil to transfer to and from the the "Big Wing" extension. The original sump wall profile provides a dampening effect on oil slosh left and right within the sump.

Difficult to describe in words but the attached sketch of the sump in cross section will hopefully help explain

[joe7]

There's an Escort Big wing for sale on UK eBay for your viewing pleasure!