what oil?

[freddy22112211]

That ad picture is the one I had for years on my wall as a kid. Obviously a special with the lights and the wheel arch flares. I don't suppose there's anybody out there that knows anything about this car?
Gordon

[marcfuller]

Modern synthetic oils like Mobil 1 would be OK in a freshly rebuilt engine with very fine tolerances, but shouldn't be used in older/higher mileage engines (from the Valvoline rep)

Please ask your Valvoline rep about the content of pressure lubricants such as ZDDP in Mobil 1 and Valvoline oils. And how the modern motor oils from Valvoline and other makers are addressing the unique friction surface present in older high performance flat tappet engines, wether newly rebuilt or with milage. Particulary what pressure lubricants they are including in their formulation as ZDDP is being reduced, and what testing has been done to what result.

As science is being done it appears that ZDDP is compound with very unique properties in areas under pressure, and has almost no substitutes.

Brand name means little, formulation is what counts.

[1964 S1]

Hi Marc, I'm a tree hugger. "Should" I quit using my environmentally friendly modern GTX 20 50 dinosaur dung and convert to the Quaker State converter poisoning street unapproved dinosaur dung to try and save lobes of hardened heated iron? ie; do I wanna pollute less or save my cams? (my Lotus engines burn very little oil, they probably leak more than they burn but I guess that's a whole another subject.) Signed, Perplexed

[thor]

I would hereby like to start the new organization STC,

Save The Cams..

[types26/36]

I would hereby like to start the new organization STC,

.......with donations sent to some numbered Swiss bank account I suppose........

[thor]

excellent idea.

[marcfuller]

Dear Perplexed,

We must save the lobes! Those smooth rounded shapes create so much joy in all areas of our life. Oh yes, there are times when I want to quietly enter the garage, caress the bonnet, gently lift the cam cover and ... . Huh, what ... oh yes the environment. As you point out lubrication is very important to both. Well fortunately we don't have to risk prematurely ending the pleasure we get from lobes in order to enjoy a long term relationship with the environment. First, you need to realize the ZDDP you use in your Elan relationship does not impact other relationships you may have. Understanding that point, there appears to be a solution which meets both the needs of our older catalyst free English "mistresses" and new found sensitivity of the envrionment and "peak oil". The relationship and friction wizards of Valvoline produce such a lubrication wonder. It is described as "a premium synthetic engine oil formulated to give the grassroots racer a competitive edge through more horsepower and extra-wear engine protection." And it "contains increased amounts of zinc for extra engine protection"! We know that those are just code phrases that mean now we can enjoy many fun weekends from our Elans' lobes while extending the stock of dinosaur juice through modern science. As for the "leaking", that depends.

Here is the link for more info-
http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products ... product=95

[1964 S1]

As much as I'd really like to proceed with the dung and leaking Depends jokes, I'll bet some people out there think we're wasting their time. But while were on the subject of, SAVE THE CAMS, what about Slick 50? I put it in my wife's Peugeot years ago and it actually started easier and did give that 10% increase in gas mileage. Would it hurt or help an Elan? And this synthetic Valvoline... (?)

[marcfuller]

Well, if we must be nothing but serious ... I don't know much of anything about Slick 50. But, PTFE (teflon) is not a satisfactory substitute pressure lubricant for ZDDP. In fact PTFE is not a pressure lubricant at all.

There was a recent article in Discovery magazine which abstracted a recent Science article regarding ZDDP research findings. ZDDP is a somewhat unique compound that forms a very hard protective wear layer in pressure situations from just pressure alone. Heat is not needed. What I have not been able to find is how long the ZDDP wear layer will last without new ZDDP to replenish it and at what ZDDP amounts. My guess (hope) is that research is still being done. It is intertesting that both Crane and Comp cam companies have issued service bulletins recently addressing rapid lobe and flat tappet wear. This was not an issue for these companies until 2004.

"And this synthetic Valvoline... (?)" Your question is ... The Valvoline is a widely avail 20-50 with the "classic" levels of ZDDP.

Link to the Discovery article-
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20 ... n=dsc_news

[1964 S1]

My vague question was to myself, what am I to do? I've used Castrol in everything I've owned since 1974, when I raced an Opel in Showroom Stock! Switching brands, eegads. And Valvoline is one of few choices? Double eegads. Quaker State it is eh?

[denicholls2]

I use Mobil 1 15/50 in my Europa because the PO started with it, and when I replaced the oil pump a year ago it was wonderfully clean in the bottom end.

But my old Toyota is pushing 227,000 miles without ANY engine work on Dino. My guess is the first 32,000 (when I didn't own it) were on the original oil, because from the day I got it it's burned a quart every few thousand and my previous Toyotas never burned any between changes. The last was squashed at 187,000 and also saw no engine work in its lifetime.

Subsequent changes at 5,000 mile intervals on GTX. I started with the recommended 10/30 and when new to me, noted that 10/40 lowered fuel economy. Now that it's old and loose it likes 10/40 better, and Castrol has a low consumption formula that seems to make some difference in the burning.

Over-changing oil, particularly synthetic, is a waste of money and the environment. Use good quality Dino or synthetic to your taste and change it at reasonable intervals, and your engine will likely be as happy as my Toyota's.

I also believe that synthetics are more prone to leakage, but only moderately so.

[Galwaylotus]

Higher pressure is not the be-all and end-all. An engine wants plenty of oil flow. You want to maintain a film or cushion of oil between relatively moving parts such as crank and rod bearings, camshaft and head bearings etc. A good oil with high shear strength and flowing at a good consistent rate is what's required. Cranking up the pressure just wastes power and can make the oil heat up more (not good).

[Galwaylotus]

Just read some of the earlier postings. Slick 50 was tested by an independent body (can't remember which one) and found to be little more than "snake oil". It's so slippery it won't stick to anything so it drains out each time you change your oil! If parts were plasma coated in graphite or some other hp lube before assembly that would work but I'll save my money for a good engine oil rather than dumping in the latest additive, thank you.

[marcfuller]

Galwaylotus - The discussion of "high pressure" in this thread has been related to the nature of the oil's "package" and the high pressure lubricants in the oil which are of partiular importance for flat tappets, NOT the engine's internal oil pressure.

[Galwaylotus]

Marc,

I refer to
"Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also have good experience with 20/50 in the past, stopped consumption and upped the pressure on my previous Triumphs. "

and

"Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2006 8:24 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My thoughts exactly-. On my TR4A, changing from a 10 or 15W40 to the Valvoline 20/50, the oil pressure went up, and the consumption went down by 70%. "

That's what I was commenting on.

Rgds.