Radiators and cooling

[mark030358]

In response to quotes re aluminium rad on ebay in a previous post, 304 pounds all in. Had the car out today, car runs at 75 deg C as per he last post who runs a TTR rad. It also looks good too and lots of bonnet clearance. FABULOUS piece of kit. Will post pic soon.

cheers
Mark

[steveww]

For an alternative approach see my site:

http://www.stig.uklinux.net/index.php?id=26

I have positioned the rad down in the nose. Not sure if there is a big improvement in flow but it certainly gives more room around the engine for maintenance.

[pereirac]

All that spare room, it looks a bit bare but at least you can tighten the steering column UJ easily.

Looks good

Carl

[msd1107]

RE: Aluminum vs traditional radiators.

First, if you are going to be showing your car, or are otherwise committed to a stock appearing engine bay, then you are going to have to use the radiator that was delivered with your vehicle, whether narrow or wide.

Remember, the standard layout is inefficient, so you are always going to be close to the limits under some circumstances. Make sure your radiator is thoroughly cleaned, as a dirty scaled up radiator will not transfer heat as efficiently as a nice clean one, as well as the engine block. Re-core the radiator if yucky, use appropriate anti-freeze, and change it regularly. Take off the engine driven fan, it us useless at a stoplight, just when you want airflow. Besides, your water pump will like you. Next, make sure you have the electric fan installed. See section K.9 of the workshop manual, which allows the fan to be retrofitted to cars that did not have it originally. Use whatever thermostat setting you are enamored of, whether 70C, 75C, or 80C will not make much difference in the peak temperature reached in stopped traffic. Use a fan thermostat about 10C above the water thermostat, possibly with a mechanical override. Remember that the electric fan as stock is not very capable or efficient, compared with a modern ducted fan, so you are still marginal. Follow the recommendations in Section K.11 of the Workshop Manual (install blanking plate 036B 1145 and ventilation holes in the left hand wheel arch).

The other option is to install a modern aluminum radiator. Several web sites offer aluminum radiators. Look for something called drag racing. They will be 12X22 or so, and can be ordered with hose inlet/outlets where you want them, and the right size. Dave Bean has one of the right size in his catalog (R026K 0001, 10lbs), but I don?t know if it comes with installation instructions. Mount it down in the nose and use a remote filler - see CliveyBoy (www.cliveyboy.com), he has a nice one. A less expensive route is to use a Scirroco radiator, available frequently on eBay at quite reasonable prices. The only negative is the water inlet is on the upper carburetor side, but this has been covered in another post. Lastly, ditch the water pump and replace it with an electric water pump. Davies Craig sells an appropriately sized unit, together with an ECU that runs the pump only when it is needed. One version of the ECU will keep the water pump running after switch off until the water temp is less than a cut off value, preventing heat soak. The ECU can be adjusted from the cockpit to whatever temperature you want, so if you believe in it you can run cold for more power and hot for better fuel economy.

The last thing is to pay attention to under hood air flow. It appears the Elan traps air that came in through the radiator inlet or up from the bottom of the car, and it has a difficult time exiting the car. Not only does this decrease the efficiency of the radiator, but it increases the effective CD of the car, and promotes lift at the front. You can try adjusting the bonnet catch so that the rear is an inch or so higher than its normal catch point, which will allow some air pressure to exit along the sides and back of the bonnet. Although it will alter the visual appearance of the hood, you could cut ventilation holes in the bonnet roughly equivalent to the ventilating holes recommended by the Workshop Manual in the wheel arch.

Anybody have some other ideas?

[cliveyboy]

Just want to make one point.
If you do want to fit a modern type radiator.
People keep mentioning the scirroco radiator as a possibility.
As MSD states the pipes are on the wrong side and in my opinion not worth the hassle.
Ford do some radiators which are much better.
You might remember I once spent a whole weekend going through the drawings of a radiator manufacturer. (about 900)
I found about six radiators that I thought could be utilised with out too much problems. reasonable size, pipes on the right side etc
I did find one radiator that I thought was an ideal size, aluminium core and has the hoses in the correct location and the pipes are the same size as the original triumph one.
You might remember it at the show as I was trying to make myself a cowl so it could be a direct swop for the original and also look something like the original.
I am still working on that but if you were not too worried about looks or you wanted to mount it in the nose cone its ideal.
I do not know what it is used on but it was very cheap.
If anyone is interested give me an email I can possibly find out more info for them.

Clive

[mopho]

Just want to make one point.
If you do want to fit a modern type radiator.
People keep mentioning the scirroco radiator as a possibility.
As MSD states the pipes are on the wrong side and in my opinion not worth the hassle.

Well, I went with such a radiator, mainly because one was available for free at the time, so we gave it a shot. Perhaps not the best solution, but it was not much of a hassle to make it work. The fan is on an manual switch (for now) and the only time I've had the car get hot enough to be concerned, was when I was once driving in city traffic with an outside temp of 104F (40C) and I was late to turn on the fan.
Even in over 100F temps, the engine temp only reaches 90C (sometimes a hair over) when climbing steep, twisty, slow hills.
Of course I am not so concerned with originality

[cliveyboy]

I think my terminology of "too much hassle" was not the best wording.
What I should have said is if you were to "buy" a radiator it would make sense to get one which required less plumbing and long pipe runs needing extra support etc.
Although I must admit Mopho's installation is a nice job.

Clive

[mopho]

Thanks Clive. The metal tubing was scavenged from an old Kirby vacuum cleaner

[steveww]

For those of you with out an old Kirby to strip, try http://www.nfauto.co.uk/cut_tubes.htm

This is where I got the tube for my S4 from.

[elansprint71]

Mopho,
What die the "on it's side" Tudor bottle do?

Cheers,
Pete.

[elansprint71]

Or in English.... what does the "on it's side" Tudor bottle do?

Pete

[mopho]

Oil catch can

Probably should have an oil catch bucket under the car

[billwill]

Any engine engineers, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that a reduced spring pressure in the radiator cap will have little or no effect until the water temperature exceeds normal boiling point 100 degC. (something we seek to avoid any way by other means).

Then a reduced pressure rating in the cap will mean that it will boil over (steam everywhere ) more easily

[mikealdren]

Bill,
You're right of course. The radiator cap is to prevent things blowing up as the temperature rises and of course it gives a warning to the driver that things are very wrong.

Lowering the pressure means it all happens at a lower temperature, safer for the engine and cooling system but you don't want it down in the normal operating temperature range.

Mike

[TomR]

The increased pressure provided by the cap raises the boiling point, but not all of the coolant is at the same temperature. Boiling begins in a hot spot, maybe by the exhaust valve. The steam released raises the pressure of the entire system quickly and the steam then recondenses as pressure goes up.

With no means to pressurize that same hot spot will continue to boil, which is ok itself since boiling removes heat very well, but could result in steam blanketing and local overheating if there is too much boiling.

Tom