Burn all insurance companies!

[blueseamonkey]

Ok, further answers back now. The car has been scrapped and is not retrievable
But Zenith have agreed it was worth what I paid for it, and are sending me a much bigger cheque, so its not all bad news.
Not quite what I was after, but a much better result than I thought I'd get 2 weeks ago.
Also my wife has relented and said I can have a Lotus, but I've got to use some of the money to buy a 'sensible' car too. So... if anyone knows of a +2 going for anything under ?3000 I am interested now, otherwise I might just have to save up for a better one in a few months time. But at least I can now say I will be back!
Rick

[alaric]

Good for you!

Can't believe they just scrapped it! I thought there would be some point at which you would have the option to have the car back as part of the settlement; isn't it your car after all; you're the registered keeper. They'll argue that they've now payed you market value but I'm surprised that you weren't the one authorising the action to be taken i.e. scrap or not scrap, since it's your car, not theirs.

My insurance company - Footman James - tells me I'd have to produce receipts to decide the value, but that'll never reflect the hours that I've spent putting it all together, so on balance I'd probably want it back with a reduced cash settlement (or me buying it from them if you want to look at it that way). The insurance is coming up for renewal so I need be sure of what I'm paying for. It's hard to value as it's not back on the road yet...

Glad it worked out for you in the end though. Sounds like moving on and looking forward to a replacement is the way to go. Good luck.

Sean.

[blueseamonkey]

Well, the final letter says it was only an 'administrative error' that led to the car being scrapped despite me specifically asking for it not to be on several occasions. If I was in the same situation again, to be honest I don't think I'd even bother making the claim, or if I did, I'd make sure they had specific written instructions not to scrap it, before I let anyone take it away to ostensibly 'repair' it.
Anyway, at least I now get the fun of tracking down a new toy.
Rick

[alaric]

Must have been very stressful for you - I thought you'd been trying to make sure it wasn't scrapped from earlier posts - that's why I was surprised. I didn't mean to imply otherwise if that's how it came across - apologies if that was the case. An administrative error. Hm. I wonder if that happened to a car that'd just been restored, whether the company could be sued for damages, time spent on the restoration and the cost of parts that could have been recovered.

All the best.

Sean.

[M100]

I wonder if that happened to a car that'd just been restored, whether the company could be sued for damages, time spent on the restoration and the cost of parts that could have been recovered.

That is the prime reason for having agreed value insurance on any classic Lotus. With any other form of cover the insurance company will pay out based on an average market value not much above the trade price.

As an example take two cars say 35 years old that left the production line together and are now garaged side by side.

One with a couple of owners, full service history and having just undergone a GBP20000 rebuild

The other has two dozen previous owners, unknown service history and the chassis, engine and body are on their last legs.

To the insurance company under a normal policy they are effectively carrying the same risk so the premiums will be identical. In the event of a claim they will pay out say GBP5000 which might be an acceptable price for the basket case car but a serious blow to the owner of the near perfect car. Expecting the insurers to increase their payout after the event due to the higher perceived value in the marketplace of the near perfect car would be laughed out of court.

Having said that agreed value is not the answer to everything. The insurers never cover for the costs of a previous restoration, putting GBP20000 into a GBP5000 car won't make it instantly worth GBP25000, it might only make half that on a good day.

[alaric]

I know, but it doesn't seem fair does it?

I phoned the insurance about a month or so ago to sort out an agreed value as the car was starting to come together, and was told that I'd just have to produce receipts in the event that anything happened. I didn't believe them. I'm not so concerned while the bits are in my own garage - securely bolted away and the garage alarmed - but it'll soon all be up with the body restorers for fitting of the body - hence the call to the insurance company. My plan is to send them a letter summarising all the work and bits etc that've gone into it. Otherwise I'm facing a situation where all the parts will be off my premises, and at risk, so I want insurance cover for that.

I'd like to be given the choice now, not told after the event that I wasn't covered. Just like under house insurance where one can list items and their replacement value (and the insurance adjuster can come in and reduce your payout if you don't do that), I should be able to list the value of the car - that's what the agreed value is about isn't it - doesn't strike me as rocket science. Then the premium reflects the agreed value. I wouldn't expect the full restoration cost either, just a payout that would allow me to buy something equivalent. I wasn't impressed by the response of my current insurance, so if anyone knows of an insurance company that'll work with me I'd be interested.

Sean.

[M100]

The agreed value thing came to a head when classic car prices collapsed at the end of the 80's and Lord Brockett torched a few Ferrari's for the insurance.

The upshot is you can submit all you like to an insurance company but they won't take a blind bit of notice of it come claim time. The only valuations that stand up in their book are the "official" ones usually done by the owners clubs. While they don't usually examine the car in person they do want proof of the work done and photos. They can also give a valuation on "work in progress" Don't ever rely on any garage, dealer or restorer carrying insurance whilst working on your cars. Chances are they won't have it and even if they do they will deny all responsibility until the cows come home.

[alaric]

Ok. Thanks for that. It confirms my concerns. I've loads of photos, video, and have scanned all the receipts etc. I didn't know I could get a valuation of work in progress. That'd be worth doing.

At least Rick has another chance to find a smart car - sounds like a reasonably happy ending all things considered.

All the best.

Sean.

[Hamish Coutts]

Is it not better to get an agreed valuation from the likes of Club Lotus then the insurance Co. will accept the valuation and set the premium accordingly?
I have jumped through the hoops to get a valuation for my +2 which the insurance co have accepted.

I have been doing that for a few years now with the likes of Footman Jhames. Surely that will resolve any valuation problems - or am I just being naieve?

Hamish.

[chrishewett]

I have always had an agreed valuation from club lotus which I consider fairly generous, although not nearly as much as I have spent on the car. I understand that you will probably never get back what you have spent on these cars, maybe one day my son will!
On the subject just raised of Footman James - I have always insured with them, renewal in may - ?200. I just received a quote from Towergate Hall & Clarke - ?111.90! Anyone used them? Any comments?
Chris

[alaric]

Hamish, that was my plan, but I've assumed I'd have to drive the car to someone to get it valued; as it's not complete yet, there's a period over which most of the components are there, but it's still not driveable. I'm especially concerned about the period whilst it's at the restorer's. Maybe the local area leader will be able to help me out... some of the club guys have been to see the car already out of interest.

Sean.

[simon.mitchell]

I just received a quote from Towergate Hall & Clarke - ?111.90! Anyone used them? Any comments?

I use them for my Zetec plus 2 and also for my Series 3 Land Rover - seem very helpful although I haven't had to claim yet!

One thing I do like about them is that you can always get to speak to someone quickly when you call - unlike my previous insures Firebond, who have a queueing system. Their record was 40 minutes (your call is important to us...) at which point I gave up.