N00b With Ignition Problems...

[Jens]

I have a serious problem. My Elan won't start after standing still for the last ten years. The starter cranks the engine quite nicely and the Webers supply the engine with enough gasoline, so that is just not the problem. I just can't seem to get any sparks from my plugs - not even the slightest one! What is the most common solution to this problem, i.e. what seems to be the most presumable cause. Anyone.... Please help me out on this one.

//Jens - almost in tears.

[types26/36]

Jens,
I think the list would need a little more infomation before attempting a diagnosis,
do you have points & condenser or electronic ign ? was it running 10 years ago ?
Has it been worked on in that time span ? has it got an imobilizer ? have you checked all the connections are on the coil ? does it have power to the coil ? if points are they gapped correctly ? are all other electrical items working O.K. ?
any other relevent information? so dont reach for the tissues just yet!
Brian.

[Jens]

Oki... Here comes the extra iformation...
It has points and condenser ignition, no one has touched the electronics or the engine since 1966 apart from generatl maintenance, it worked just fine ten years ago and all the other appliances are working ok. The car is not fitted with an immobilizer.

/Jens - just sobbing a little bit

[elanman3]

Jens,

Head up and stop sobbing!

My +2 hadn't run for 8 years before I got it. I took the simple option... I replaced things until I got it sparking, plugs, plug caps, leads, distributor cap, rotor arm, condensor and coil etc. I got all of the bits from Lucas (UK) with the exception of the plug caps and leads, which I got from Holden's classics.

Now put that hankerchief away, because you'll soon be smiling

elanman3

[types26/36]

Not sure I'd agree with the "replace everything in sight" approach, does no harm but I like to know whats going on.
Back to basics: first step Get a fire extingusher!
1 check all connections on coil, two small and centre HT cable, make sure the centre HT connection is not corrorded inside coil tower.
2 check wire on distributor connector (think its white & black)
3 turn on ign, check power to small coil connection 12v (white?) .....turn off ign
4 take off dist. cap, check rotor is there, get someone to turn over engine to see if rotor is turning.
5 at the same time check if you can see a spark at points
6 check inside dist cap for centre carbon brush and any cracks/burn lines and all the segments are O.K. all HT cables secure.
7 turn engine (by spanner on front pully bolt or put in 4th gear and move car until points are on high point of cam.........check gap (about 16 thou)
8 with rubbing paper try to put between points and clean
NOTE. this is easier with distributor out but I dont want to complicate things as I dont know your level of mechanical skill and I'm not being patronsing.
9 when this has been achived with everything in place hold a plug lead away from the block, turn over engine and check for spark.
Basic steps compleat !
Brian

[brassringfarm]

Jens - Previous posts are right on target. Follow the electricity with a voltmeter from the source wire thru each device including the tachometer. It's a very simple circuit and you probably either have an open connection in points or a bad capacitor. - or the secondary part of the coil is bad. The points are just a switch, so you should be able to trace to where you have no juice. I used to check my old Lucas powered Austin Healey 3000 every year as preventative maintenance and my 65 Elan has the same hardware as the Healey - in principle. Let us know what you find at each point and we'll help diagnose it. It's got to be something simple.
Paul
65 S2

[Hamish Coutts]

Jens,

May also be worth spraying the inside of the distributor cap and the distributor itself with WD40. This will expell any moisture that may have worked its way in.

Also any oil that was in the piston rings will have long gone. This may lead to low compression. When I started my engine (after a 2 year lay off), I turned it over with the plugs out until I saw a reading on the oil pressure guage to get oil into the bearings. I also put a good squirt of light oil down the bores to get oil into the piston rings and ensure a good compression.

Also if the fuel has been lying in the tank for 10 years it will have lost its octane rating. Put fresh fuel in the tank and also squirt a teaspoon or so of fuel into each carb choke with a syringe.

That, combined with all the electric checks should do the trick.

Hope this helps,

Hamish.

PS It may be an idea to check for a noisy water pump bearing once the engine is going. This may need replaced.

[Jens]

I have done exactly that, seen to it that there is fresh oil in the engine, poured light oil in the bore, cranked the engine by hand a few strokes just to ensure that there is enough oil and compression to get it started. Right now i am just thinking of how to get the plugs sparking. Cleaned the distributor - cap thorougly today and cleaned the rotor. Still no good. Next step is to assure that the distributor gets power from the coil. That will be the mission for tomorrow. The old fuel had evaporated so at the moment there is only fresh fuel in it. Smells nice! Also the carburettors supply the cylinders with juice, so that shall not be a problem. I must say though that this must be the friendliest website on the net. I have never met som many nice people at the same time before! Must be the Chapman spirit...

//Jens - version 1.2, now without the handkerchief... ^_^

[twincamman]

clean the a ground strap[motor to chassis ]or check for corroded points or insulation of condenser to distributer plate failing that check all connections from : ignition switch and relace the coil ed law :huh:

[Jens]

There is a god. Or otherwise C. Chapman thought of men in heaven. Never ever have I been so pleased as I am just now. Guess what... IT FIRED UP!!!! Not after five strokes but after the first one! Gosh what a difference clean points make... Next project: brakes and clutch. Anyone who knows how to renovate the cylinders in an easy way?

//Jens

P.S.
Thank you for the 9-point list. It was really good. Taking out the distributor made everything easier...

[twincamman]

brakes are your life line -- its not a good job for a first timer to do alone----- try bleeding them then if there is no brake i suggest you have a pro look at them ---- also give a close look at the brake lines after 40 years a new set may be in the cards ---- i use steel braided lines though they may not be legal in your area ---and bleed the brakes untill fresh fluid appears ed law

[Jens]

I have dismantled the brakes and am going to change the brakelines, that is not the big issue. Also the discs are being renovated by a professional. The problem I have is that the calipers do not move at all. Is it possible ti get them moving with compressed air? HAs anyone tried it? Or i there another way? I am not so keen on using brute force since they are still the original ones...

//Jens

[twincamman]

yes you can get the pistons to move with compressed air------place a block of wood in the calliper ----wrap the air gun end in cloth to seal the hole and apply it to the hole that accepts the brake line ---apply air pressure and the pison will hit the wood --- undamaged we hope ed law

[Hamish Coutts]

Compressed air - if you don't have access to an airline, try a foot pump. The valve end of the hose fits over some bleed nipples and will seal when the locking lever is pushed down. If you have a spare bleed nopple fit it into the brake pipe connection.

Hamish.

PS I have just completed a full brake overhaul including both master cylinders (i.e. clutch as well) and a full set of pistons. I didn't find it difficult at all. Take plenty of photographs as you go along.
Send me an e-mail if you have any questions.

[pereirac]

If you have a baby Elan, rebuilt front calipers cost about ?50.00 each (I bought mine from a local Triumph dealer, after all they are Spitfire brakes). I figured this was easier than trying to get the old pistons out (they were seized after 10 years off the road), possibly discovering that the corroded pistons had scored the bores, buying new pistons and seals, cleaning up the old units and replacing the pistons and seals..

Replacing the calipers and bleeding the system took about one hour for both sides (good excuse to replace the trunnion seals at the same time as the wheels were off).

I now also have shiny replated calipers rather than my old grubby units.

Front disks are also Triumph bits, so are fairly cheap (about ?10 each), I would have though this is cheaper than sending them off...