Dropped Nut

[Roland]

Everything was going so well today, valve clearances done and cam timing done. I was just finishing up and removing the final nut used to secure the plate I use to mount the dial gauge to check the cam timing. I had the nut in my fingers and it slipped did a graceful arc and went down the timing chain chest. It was a size of one of the cam cover nuts and I didn't think it would go all the way down but there is no sign of it.

I haven't done any serious fishing yet but a few exploratory prods down the timing chain cover with a 3mm diameter wire and I hit steel at sort of oil level in the sump. I think this is the horizontal baffle on the QED sump fitted to the car, so I suspect the nut is sitting on the baffle. I have very carefully turned the engine over by hand through two rotations with no issue.

I will try some fishing with a magnet but not hopeful. The car is an Elan Sprint and I have a removable cross member on my chassis. So I should be able to drop the sump with the engine in the car, is that correct?

Any other ideas before I try the sump drop.

Tks

Roland

[nmauduit]

yes, you should be able to remove the sump with the engine in situ (you can always losen the mounts and shift it a bit if needed) - what I would do first is spend some time with the magnet on a stick... good luck !

[berni29]

Hi

Ugh!

I can see difficulties in using a permanent magnet to fish it out. You can get some very powerful small neodymium magnets, but they are just going to snag on everything. Perhaps one mounted on the end of a stiff bamboo stick might work? Otherwise some sort of switchable electromagnet? Just thinking out loud

Best of luck

Berni

[2cams70]

I’ve found in these sorts of situations if you can get into a position where you can see the nut a ball of blu-tack on the end of a length of wooden dowl works well. Try not to turn the engine over. Doing so my cause the nut to drop further. Blu-tack sticks when you apply pressure and is not magnetic. Magnetic often does not work well when there is lots of other metal around

[Roland]

So I am pretty sure this nut has gone all they way down. Before I hand turned the engine I could see nothing with a good flashlight.

There is virtually no room to get a magnetic down there and fish. Small Neodymium magnets strung onto something semi flexible are perhaps possible. However even if I get the nut on the magnets it’s got a very narrow path back upwards. It’s surprising the nut went all the way down. I could remove the cams and pull the chain to one side to provide more room but that could be wasted work.

I think it’s sump off. I guess it’s an opportunity to fit cap screws on the sump.

[rgh0]

You can potentially drag it to the sump drain plug hole with a strong magnet from the outside of the sump and retrieve it from there.

cheers
Rohan

[Roland]

Rohan and all

So here's the end of this annoying tale.

I fashioned a fishing rod with a small magnet at the end and spent 2 hrs fishing. I got down far enough and I think I did get it once, but there is virtually no room to extract it.

In the end I dropped the sump and it wasn't in there, checked timing case again from top and bottom and couldn't see it. At this point I started to question my sanity and if I did drop it down there. So I am now thinking camshafts out so I can shift timing chain. Before going down this route I thought I'll carefully see if I can still turn the engine, as soon as it turned the nut rolled out of the timing chain cover. No idea where it was hiding.

The strong magnet on the sump was something I considered but I have this QED sump the PO fitted. I had no idea of the baffling fitted and QED couldn't tell me because they stopped doing them some time ago. Anyway here's a picture of the sump internals, if the nut had reached the sump it probably would have got trapped in the baffled front section or stayed on the baffle plate

Not proud of dropping it down there or the problem solving to recover it. However a sump drop was probably going to be required. Thank you for all the suggestions.

Not sure about this QED sump, its holding back a pint of oil and not self draining properly. I have some sludge at the base which is a surprise. Baffle design also does make full sense to me, no vertical baffle in the front section.

Roland