CYLINDER HEAD

[geni]

For my Elan Twin Cam, I am looking for a strong head gasket other than the copper one. The head is already surfaced and reduced to 117.40 m/m and with some flatness defects, i.e. mini cracks due to the coolant.
I have contacted Burton, but their reply is no help.
I would like to be able to find the right choice and the right supplier.



Thank you for your enquiry. We recommend that you contact the manufacturer of your engine to find out which head gasket you need.

We recommend that you contact the engine manufacturer to find out which cylinder head gasket you need. There are many variations that can cause serious damage if not supplied correctly.

We recommend that you contact the engine manufacturer to find out which cylinder head gasket you need, as there are many variants that can cause a lot of damage if supplied incorrectly.
geni

[geni]

J'ai oublié de mentionner qu'en deuxième texte leur réponse a ma demande vu leur catalogue comportant diverses références au joint de culasse

I forgot to mention that in the second text their response to my request and as their catalogue included various references to the head gasket!

[jono]

Ajusa - QED

or Burton:

https://www.burtonpower.com/head-gasket ... fb731.html

I've found these work flawlessly where copper gaskets have not and I would use anything else now.

[elans3]

Agree with the above, I've used Ajusa and would say theythe best I've ever used.

[512BB]

It should be noted that there are 6600 signed up members of this board to date. 2 of those members in this thread favour head gaskets other than copper and in another thread several members favour copper. These figures are hardly representative are they, just like opinions on every thread.on this board, and one should carry out much more research than just accepting the view of very few respondees, depending on your particular circumstance,

Leslie

[mark030358]

Ajusa head gasket here also …. Us from up North like them.

Next?

Cheers
Mark

[gherlt]

Leslie,
I have no idea, no clue and no experience at all about head gaskets, of any kind.
But while you correctly make your point, 6598 members also can get it wrong when a new material, new method or new process is applied for a given part. Sometimes changing a proven design repels people. Also true: nothing is better because it is new.

Geni, in your request I miss the engines configuration, race, fast road, standard?

And finally, you really could ask Lotus.

[nmauduit]

Bonsoir Gérard,

I would suppose you're running a not overly rebored block, so Ajusa 84mm would be the choice - but I'm a bit worried about the head "flatness defects" and "mini cracks" ... I suppose the head has been checked by a reliable machinist (since the head has apparently been skimmed), and the reason for returning it as is was suitably explained (a "big valve" head would be thinner so I suppose this was a "standard" head originally, yet someone may be hesitant to skim it too much? or was it a requirement on you part ?) a close scrutiny of potential defects would be in order before vouching for a solution or an other (possibly with some facts about the history of the part), so photos of the questionable areas may not be sufficient to be definitive about the proper handling of your issue I'm afraid...

[rgh0]

In the world of head gaskets there are essentially 3 modern generations of production use gaskets

1. Copper steel laminate with a layer in between. it used to be asbestos but now some other fibre. OEM use from 50's to 70's and the original style used by Ford / Lotus and perfectly adequate for a road engine in good condition

2. Compressed fibre (CFM)with steel fire rings inserted and typically an internal perforated steel layer to hold them together e.g. the Ajusa style provided for the twincam. The were used by OEMS from 70's through to 90's. These seal better on twin cams than the original gaskets in race engines and on heads that are not "perfect" I find

3. Multi layer steel ( MLS) where thin stainless steel layers are joined by synthetic rubber layers of which Cometic is a large supplier to the aftermarket. The have been used by most OEMs since around 2000 . They require a stiffer cylinder head structure to seal adequately and don't work reliably on twincams due to the flexibility of the head.

If, where and how and what type of sealants to use on any style and make of head gasket is a more complex issue and very situation specific so I avoid giving general guidance on that apart from follow the manufacturers recommendations in most instances

cheers
Rohan

[2cams70]

But guys - I thought the OEMs were full of garbage with the sole aim to get the car through the warranty period!!!!

[rgh0]

But guys - I thought the OEMs were full of garbage with the sole aim to get the car through the warranty period!!!!

Yes the OEMs still are driven too much by the accountants and too little by the engineers, but they are having to offer 7 to 10 year warranties these days on things like the power train so they are having to put more money and technology in to get past this now long warranty period.

MLS gaskets are also cheaper to mass produce than previous technologies but require a suitably designed and machined cylinder head and block but once this is done they tend to be very reliable for the long warranty periods these days.

cheers
Rohan

[2cams70]

Take it from me Rohan with insider experience it's mostly not the accountants to blame its the sales, sales and more sales department that mostly runs OEM's these days!!!

[friedy]

I've been going through this dilemma as well. Posted on here about sealants on head gaskets, also very different opinions. I spoke to SJ sportscars, they supply copper and ajusa, they said unless a racing or uprated engine a copper should be fine, and the copper has some sort of sealant layer on them already so shouldn't need sealant. I take it all this is provided the head is in good condition. Maybe phone a couple of suppliers for their opinion especially ones that rebuild.
Alan

[2cams70]

A copper faced gasket might be at risk of causing more corrosion around water passages than a CFM one. Copper is more noble on the galvanic scale compared to Aluminium.

Any risk is probably minor however given a copper type one was used originally. If it were me I'd use a CFM one but I wouldn't bother over thinking things.

Worth considering the thickness of the gasket because this affects compression ratio. If your engine was running fine without detonation previously then it would be wise to replace with one of similar thickness (allowing for the reduced thickness of a used gasket) unless you want to go to the trouble of working out the compression ratio. A measurement of the head thickness will also give you a rough guide as to where things are at assuming the engine is otherwise standard. The copper gaskets usually just come in the standard thickness and are suitable for a maximum 0.040" OS bore. CFM ones can be thicker and with bigger bore sizes

The gasket thickness, the bore hole size relative to the cylinder bore diameter, aligning it correctly by placing the gasket as centrally as you can over the cylinders, clean flat true surfaces are more important than whether it's a copper or CFM gasket.

[tonyabacus]

If you want a classic example of accountants running the show consider the MG F and MG TF from the 1990-2000's.
The accountants dictated that the engine build costs were too high and forced the fitting of less expensive parts particularly the head and manifold gaskets and water pumps which proved inferior and led to many warranty issues. Now in virtually any magazine article on buying such cars, one of the main recommendations is to ensure that these items have been changed and upgraded. A friend that worked at Rover in one of the test houses told me at the time that they were having heated discussions with the accountants over this but in the end lost out.

This I believe is and was typical of production in the last 20+ years and if as suggested this may now be changing then about time too. Why employ test engineers to build, test and develop engines(in this case), to discover faults and problems that will cause user issues, if you don't take notice of their findings or over rule them. It can only be to recover development costs in the shortest possible time. If in the process the public is the guinea pig, so be it and how many times over many years have we seen that scenario played out. I came from the centre of the British car industry and the stories behind many of these issues was well known and discussed, some even being behind strike actions, to which many of the bean counters were unaffected.
Tony