Engine rebuild costs

[Si Geen]

Following the elation of getting my recently acquired plus 2 running for the first time in 4 years. It very quickly became apparent there was a severe knocking noise!
In a matter of seconds the gravity dawned and as I turned off the engine and now I fear the worst .... The engine has ceased. On what I suspect is crank shaft related.

As we say in the navy. Threaders!

Would anyone know the approximate cost of a 2litre 16valve zetec rebuild, based on crank shaft or piston rod related work? This is possibly a tough question to precisely answer but any idea will help me get the funding past the wife?

Happy to discuss in detail

Simon

[reb53]

In this part of the world I wouldn't even contemplate such a rebuild.
I'd be off down to the wreckers to rip one out of a suitable donor for 2 tenths of bugger all.

Ralph.

[john.p.clegg]

Ditto...after the reports of standards of workmanship of "Engine Rebuilding Specialists",and "Reconditioned Engines" my own experience is dissy shaft snapped on motorway for night out in Blackpool....get down to the breakers yard..

John

[Chancer]

Breakers yard will be the first choice these days for a Zetec.

Back in the day when the engines were first out there the cost for a Ford reconditioned short engine, block crank pistons oil pump etc all assembled was only ?400 and they were in fact brand new units at least initially. Back then it was false economy to think of reconditioning and also the very best you could hope for was to end up with tolerances as good as the new Ford unit

It might just be worth enquiring if they are still available but before doing anything drastic:

Zetecs that have been left standing for a long time can make horrible knocking from the hydraulic lifters, perhaps it was that you heard? Did you have oil pressure?

The lifter knock reduces drastically when the engine is at temperature and the oil thins but really reluctant ones can take a few spirited outings to settle down.

[c42]

Hi Simon

I bought an MOT failure to get my Zetec and then rebuilt the engine, not expensive on a Zetec. The engine had 90,000 on the clock and the bore wear was negligible. The other advantage of picking up the complete car is that you have access to other invaluable parts, loom, coil pack etc.

Good Luck
John

[PeterK]

Replacement used engine ?100-?150 or a complete, new engine can be had for around ?750.

Unless it was simply a case of replacing bearing shells, or I was introducing high performance steel components, I wouldn't bother rebuilding a Zetec.

Peter

[Si Geen]

Thanks to everyone for your responses I appreciate the responses.

I'll tour the local scrapyards and do my homework. However i'll also check out two of the local companies who seem to advertise themselves as specialists in rebuilds.

There's a few 2ltr zetecs on eBay and I suppose with the help of the Internet I can crack it.

Theres no doubt I'll have lots of questions like, should I / could I, use a later model engine such as 2 litre black top with my existing sump and pick up. Again I'll have to do my research to work out the feasibility as I have no idea right now.

A few contributing factors I must consider include. The deteriating English weather. (My wife talked me into converting the garage for an aupair some years ago). This now accommodates the inlaws at Christmas "festive joy".

Still, I'm not deterred as I'm sure I can still achieve this despite never doing it before.

If theres enough interest I could post the footage from the prestigious engine run onto YouTube with a link on this site, in the hope of setting you all a Christmas quiz of "diognose the knocking sound that killed my plus 2".

In the mean time I'll write to Santa.


Thanks again

Simon

[PeterK]

Despite several internal differences between silvertop and blacktop Zetecs, the only external difference in terms of using in the Plus 2 that I know of, providing you get a complete engine, is that the alternator mounting brackets are slightly different.
The Duratec is of course completely different, most noticeably as inlet and exhaust are opposite to the Zetecs. Unfortunately some early Duratecs were still called Zetec.

If anyone knows of any other differences, then it would be useful to know as sources of serviceable silvertops reduces.

Peter
Zetec Plus 2 (nearly running )

[pauljones]

I also fail to see the reason for rebuilding a silver top zetec. Take the plunge and get a brand new 2.0 ltr zetec-R black top from the likes of kit bits direct. They're up North in Hull. Its a quick grand spent but thats the ebay price. I have no affiliation with or to them. But they were able to do a better price for my friends seven.

If your using the correct 40 DCOE 151carbs with a managed ignition or EFI these put out a healthy 150 to 160bhp with good torque too.

The Ford escort guys know all about sorting the coolant rail to suit so do Westfield etc.

I wouldnt entertain the ST170 as its a blacktop too but with a crude emissions controlling vvt. It seldom pushes out better numbers than a well sorted zetec either. People try asking silly cash for these too.

[Spyder fan]

(My wife talked me into converting the garage for an aupair some years ago).
Simon

Was she pretty? I've been trying to get my wife to talk me into an au-pair for years!

As for rebuilding zetecs, I agree with everyone else who has replied, not worth the hassle or expense, just buy a new one in a crate and stick your old one on Ebay for some other fool to rebuild.

Mind you, yours is the first zetec I have heard of that's gone pop (or knock) in years, normally they are bombproof unless you very very seriously abuse them. I have seen 150,000 mile plus examples with bores so clean that you can still see the honing marks. The cranks are good for 7500 all day long, but I suppose poor storage and water in the oil residing in the sump will kill anything....

Regards

Alan

[Chancer]

Have you definitely ruled out sticky lifters?

They can sound very alarming and like a bottom end knock.

did you/do you have oil pressure?

Apologies for asking the questions a second time. I used to race Zetecs and have never known one let go, they have a superb crank driven large diameter oil pump and a bulletproof bottom end, the only problem I have ever suffered is sticking pressure relief valves on early 1.8's that will blow out the oil filter sealing ring.

One of mine had sat unprotected for - months in a breakers yard and water had entered a couple of cylinders through the DCOE barrels, even that responded to no more than wet n dry and WD40 plus a darn good thrashing, I even re-used the head gasket, that one knocked like billy-oh for the first few hours and then tapped like mad for close to a week, if it was left unrun for any length of time it would re-occur. After a few hundred miles and some track work the compressions were like new and it never breathed.

No point shelling out on a new engine unless you need to, if it was running fine before and its not been run for 4 years I am totally convinced that what alarmed you was no more than lifter rattle.

[Si Geen]

Once again thanks for your great replies.

I'll try to explain what I know of the cars history.

The car has been left standing outside for some years my 9 year old asked me about it whilst cycling past it one evening and in an attempt to get him to do his homework, I wrote a letter which resulted in the sale.

I bought it in late summer this year for ?1750. He had it converted by spyder in 2005 and I have all the receipts from between 2005 and 2007 totalling ?24.551.74

The previous owner has explained that he had an issue which involved an engine mounting shearing resulting in the crank pulley dropping onto the cross member. This is why I suspected that the engine had ceased as a possible result of the crank.

The point about the oil pressure by "chancer" is a very astute question, because the pervious owner had a braided oil pressure hose to the smiths guage which split and sprayed the back of the dash with oil. "you may be onto something".

Once the engine ground to a halt last Saturday, I observed the following:
The oil change was the expected deep black colour. But I saw no major filings of metal in it or on the old oil filter that I'd changed. I used an extendable magnet to reach into the sump drain hole / removed oil filter casing and observed very little wear. I did however note small terracotta coloured chips in no great quantity but couldn't work out what that might be.

There was a small quantity of smoke from arround the exhaust side of the engine, but I thought it wasnt anything drastic (i put it down to burning off 4 years of neglect).

My final observation was that when the engine slowed and stopped the new battery was drained to about 11.2 volts.

Now when I turn the key theres nothing. Fuses are all ok, Emerald ECU no longer goes green and the starter doesn't even try to kick in. ( I can't remember if the cabin light dims). However the Battery is back up to 12.6 volts on the multimeter following a charge. Fuel pump kicks in but nothing happens.

There..... you have it all. And for the record the au pair was rats ... Another navy term.

Subject to the replies, I'll keep doing my homework but I'm now very interested in the blacktop advice. I'm desperate to get this on the road. I'll try to attach some pictures of the engine. But can't seem to do it via iPad.

Once again I thank you all for your thought provoking ideas.

Si

[pauljones]

Si,

I see your in Emsworth. Not to far from myself. Although your in blue and I'm a green man myself. If you want to meet up and chat I pop to Goodwood often or go to Fareham to see family. Always up for a car chat if you got the time.

Paul

[Si Geen]

Attached is a view of the engine minus the radiator and cam belt top cover, which I forgot to mention was also missing when I bought the car.

[Si Geen]

By all means paul, let me know when your around ill pop to goodwood one Sunday morning. You'll also find me on DII under my surname.