Engine block numbers

[LCRJ]

Hi all,
Does anyone know the meaning of the numbers of Engine block?


1,T12
2,A, ->9
3,2x2, 2x3
Please tell me.
I appreciate your cooperation.
Thank you,
Hiro

[cal44]

Hiro,

I am doing a little investigation as well. These are my best guess. The T12 is the application number, upper left on picture one is time of casting. As for the 2x2 and 2x3........I got nothing.

If someone wants to help educate me the I'm all in.

Also, I had posted questions about casting dates on TC heads........got no response. But I have found by looking, very small stamped or cast dates. I don't know if all heads got stamped/cast dates but I will look at my others to see.

Mike

[rgh0]

Hi Hiro

The lugs where the 2x2 and 2x3 numbers are stamped were used for location of the casting for machining operations. Potentially on some castings these lugs were machined wrong and these number refers to some sort of shimming eg 2 sims of 2 mm thickness or similalr correction required when setting up the block for a machining operation. I dont have these numbers stamped on any of my blocks

edit and correction - I said this about not having numbers on my blocks based on memory without going back and checking my blocks when I checked I found numbers on about 20% of my blocks lugs -see a subsequent post below

regards
Rohan

[Robbie693]

This has been discussed a few times - here's one thread for example:

http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/post163630.html?hilit=%20engine%20numbers#p163630

Hope this helps

Robbie

[ardee_selby]

Hi Rohan,

I've not seen numbering in that place before. Anyone else seen, or got, them?

The lugs...were used for location of the casting for machining operations.

Yes..IIRC machining the lugs was the first op in the broaching machines (as you say to set a datum for subsequent machining...)

Potentially on some castings these lugs were machined wrong...

If, and when, that was the case it would probably have made itself known as scrappage further down the line.

If so, scrap blocks would have been put into a holding area. It was here that the "arm wrestling" between engine plant & foundry QC inspectors took place to establish the guilty party...and where the cost would fall!

(The machinists default position was, understandably, that the casting was always at fault )

I cannot recall any suggestion that shims could be used for reclamation...particularly down an automated line...?

Cheers - Richard

[rgh0]

Hi Richard

I was just guessing based on what I would do if running this sort of line.

Ford went to subsantial lengths to reclaim blocks with casting or maching problems such as sleeving them from new. Collecting a set of blocks with the lugs machined wrong and then reclaiming them by adjusting the subsequent machining setup to seems something that Ford might do - but I was really just guessing

Just went out to the garage and had a close look at my stock of 14 blocks. They are mainly 120E blocks and about 20% of the lugs had a number stamped on them of the form "11" "12" "23" or similar - no X between the numbers - never noticed these numbers before. The numbers appear on one or 2 of the lugs normally if present on a block, none of my blocks have it on all 4 many of the blocks have no numbers

The numbers are on to many of my blocks to be a way of reclaiming bad blocks. Looks more like the set up of the blocks in the line required some sort of manual adjust routinely when being sent down the automated line and these numbers were part of that set up adjustment process.

I have spent many hours looking at these blocks as i have stripped them and cleaned them and visually and ultrasonically inspected them but the numbers on the lugs have never conciously registered before !!!

cheers
Rohan




cheers
Rohan

[types26/36]

......and here is a few more numbers on one of my blocks, the guy at Ford must have had a full time job going round with his stamps

[LCRJ]

Hi all,
Thank you very much indeed for the information.
It?s very interesting.
Regarding T number, How many T number do you know?
Probably from T1 to T12? This mean Ford has 12 lines for block production?
Maybe the block grade "LA" or "LAA" must be have small T number?
Isn't there any correlation?
I do not understand well about the concrete contents of work, However I consent to your guess about the lugs numbers.
Does anyone know the meaning of the portion of #2?
Is it date of casting? But the number from 0 to 9. I think it?s not enough for date.
Also you can see the number ?4A22? means date of casting 22/1/1964 as you know.
Yes, my block also has the few more numbers too.
Kind regards,
Hiro

[bigvalvehead]

Hi all
Link to how to date blocks here
http://105speed.hyperboards.com/index.p ... ic_id=8184

I always thought the high T numbers meant a thicker wall, but no definitive proof.

Article on the Cortina website says low T numbers are thicker.

Bore it and pressure test!!
Dave

[garyeanderson]

Hi all
Link to how to date blocks here
http://105speed.hyperboards.com/index.p ... ic_id=8184

I always thought the high T numbers meant a thicker wall, but no definitive proof.

Article on the Cortina website says low T numbers are thicker.

Bore it and pressure test!!
Dave

Hi Dave

Gee, do you think that guy knows what he's talking about?

http://www.cortina-mk1classifieds.com/f ... #post10329



The block is out of the attic and has moved downstairs into Beauregard's watering hole (aka the bathroom )

Lots of info on blocks and heads on this site too!

http://www.lotuselan.net/cgi-bin/search ... oom_sort=1

Glad to see folks might learn a bit but most won't follow the links that I post.

Gary

p.s. The T numbers are the number of the core pattern parts used to cast the block, gear cast tail shaft housing, differential case, etc. At least thats my opinion.

[ardee_selby]

Yes, there have been a load of threads with "info" about the alpha-numeric "heiroglyphics" on parts...including blocks.

I've had a quick scan of them. The meaning of "L" blocks has had a load of coverage, but I don't think this variable has been discussed...

i.e. How big is your "L"? Is it a fat "L" or a skinny "L"?

This web page (http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114844) includes the following:

"...and 85mm bore, in which case the block would have to be a "big L block" Does the block have a dumpy fat L cast into it as opposed to the skinny "L" on a standard block?"

Having read that, I had a look and found these two examples in posts in here:

So...what do we think now?

Another urban myth?

Cheers - Richard

[garyeanderson]

This block was used in Uncle Carl's BDJ, an 1100cc 85mm bore and 48.x stroke. It was one of the blocks that Ford made for Cosworth by selecting and machining in a batch. One of the steps that was omitted was the drilling of the oil cross feed from the oil pump side to generator mount side (the tit in the center of the engine mount). The cross feed passage is roughly 5/16 (about 8mm) in between cylinders 2 and 3. with the passage absent you don't have to "cheat" the bores away to get some wall thickness . It can be done with the passage but its a bit more difficult and there is a greater chance of problems. Oil was fed from the dry sump pump into the top right engine mount bolt hole that had been drilled and tapped to accept a bsp fitting.



Casting Date was 3 J 19 or 1973 September 19th


Whether it has a skinny L of a Fat L I don't remember and I don't see any pictures of the other side of that block but I will look the next time I am over at the engine shop, if I remember

[ardee_selby]

I don't think anything has been offered to explain this marking.

This is a well painted example, so isn't too distinct, but it is a "B8".

Here we have "A9"

My question is: Does anyone have a block where the alpha part of this marking is anything other than an "A" or "B".

Richard

[rgh0]

I don't think anything has been offered to explain this marking.

My question is: Does anyone have a block where the alpha part of this marking is anything other than an "A" or "B".

Richard

I dont know what it means either - maybe the T number relates to the pattern set used and A or B plus a number then relates to some other thing in the casting process like the casting line used.

In my stock of blocks there is a roughly even distribution between A and B with no other letters. The numbers are roughly evenly distruted around the dial. I have 2 styles of dial one that is 1 to 9 and one that is 0 to 9

The T numbers I have are roughly evenly distributed across the range from T1 to T12. From the thickness testing I have done I see no diference in wall thickness systematically with T number.

I have one L block currently and it is a thick cast in L. It is the original block from my 68 Elan. It has the Ford casting numbers ground off and stamped number then E 6015 which are the orginal Ford casting numbers. However it is not a 120E block as it has a push in casting. I dont know a Ford block casting number with a E6015 in it that used a push in oil pick up so it is a bit of a mystery. Again from thickness testing I have done I see no systematic difference in wall thickness between L blocks (either thick or thin L) and non L blocks

Some of the 120 E blocks I have a screw fixture appearing in the casting inside the engine mount like the photo of the skinny L shows so it appears this was used to attach or not the skinny L into the pattern as required

cheers
Rohan

[garyeanderson]

OK, I was not there and I do not know. Now that it has been stated, here is my guess as to what the different markings signify

T number is just the group of core patterns used to make the sand molds of the raw cast iron part. I think I have read T numbers go up to 20

The dial thing is a "count" of how many times the pattern was used

No F-ing clue and A or B stuff

I was in manufacturing for a number of years building VAX computers at Digital Equipment. Everything was tracked so that when a problem was seen it could be traced back to where it originated and the problem corrected or rectified. Shit happens, new employees, core patterns ware out. I was talking to Dave Abraham's about his casting of the alloy Ford blocks that he had done, he told me after 100 uses the cores needed a refurbishment to bring them back to a usable condition. Sand is abrasive cores are wood, when you pack sand around the cores, its like sandpaper. The most important bit of info on the block now is the casting date, if the block was cast AFTER the invoice date then it's not the original engine, MY guess is that from casting to invoice is some where around two months so if you have a January invoiced Elan the engine should be in the late November or early December time frame. As Rohan stated they are all pretty close, the Kent engine was Fords test bed for the thin wall casting used for their small block V8 (221, 260, 289, 302, and 351) this is where the technology was developed and you won't find many of thos blocks that will bore .040 over and be of much use. The special block that were done for Cosworth were taken from 81 mm to 85.xx, blocks that started out at 1 liter grew over the years and pushed out to nearly 2 liters by folks that knew what they were doing and could get away with

Gary.